The Mule

[Martin F]

And for talking sake I have the following results since fitting the new intake temp sensor to compare against my new set up...

Cruising around the radtec is aprox 18-22 degrees centigrade above ambient, ie. it is 15 degrees centigrade air temp outside. , the power fc readings would be around 37 degrees with some small bursts of hard acceleration.

If the car is stuck in traffic then the temp can go 35 degrees above ambient which shows the radiator would maybe benefit from a set of fans...

It was 15 degree cent. when I took her for a spin between 6 and 7pm tonight. air temps are now 26 degrees - 28 degrees after a hard pull, so for talking sake it ranges from 11 degrees to 13 degrees above ambient .

I was hoping for better than that but the car drives totally different with the way it puts the power down.
She is more responsive and feels so much more powerful on WOT. I wouldn't be surprised if she was hitting up towards the 440 bhp mark if sitting on a dyno.

The clutch seems to have sorted itself out also, as long as I take it slowly when changing gear.

Temps however are still getting high if sitting in traffic, hit 40 degrees at one point.

I am going to book the car in for a dyno run and tweek of the map and boost if required. I think the intake temps would also benefit from a border style bonnet and a hole cut behind the radiator as this would let the air go through the radiator and straight out.
Not sure how that will affect the look I was wanting from the car but maybe worth a punt....

All in All, very happy with this core, it works great and the 3" pipes and larger core just make everything feel better

[2mad]

Sounds mega .. so jelly

[Ryan S]

Dad's doing good Martin thanks for asking, Loving the progress!! again I'm so tempted buy that engine lid. Seems to make life so much easier!!

[Martin F]

Dad's doing good Martin thanks for asking, Loving the progress!! again I'm so tempted buy that engine lid. Seems to make life so much easier!!

Good that things are steady for now

You need to get your car up and running, been too long, once the colder weather snaps in you will only put it off till next spring, you can't have such a nice motor yet keep missing out on perfectly good summers

Anyway, back on topic....

I moved the inlet temp sensor as it was getting far too much heatsoak from it's current location.

ie. it would be reading 28-30 degrees, turn the engine off for 15 minutes, turn ignition on and the air temp was 50 degrees.
It took ages to lower and was still well above 28 degrees after a 15 minute drive at 70mph.

the new chargecooler core was better than the radtec but only by 7-9 degrees according to the power fc readings.

I moved the Rait sensor to a 90 degree bend just before the throttle body. I am now seeing temps arouns 2 degrees above ambient while cruising. went up 12 degrees after a 15 minute engine shut down but went back down to a few degrees above ambient within a minute or so.

leads be to believe I wasted an awful lot of money in the past due to the position of the mat sensor creating false readings due to heat soak.

next step is to book some dyno time and take things from there, if nothing goes wrong then that's where things will be left

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0



Rait sensor fitted

[Ryan S]

You're absolutely right man. I need to get the finger out looking forward to seeing yours on the dyno! What turbo is yours running again?

[Martin F]

You're absolutely right man. I need to get the finger out looking forward to seeing yours on the dyno! What turbo is yours running again?

Gt3076

I am more than happy with 400-420 bhp and will rarely see myself using more, however I want a high boost setting to see what she is capable off and to have the extra power at the press of a button if ever required , if you know what I mean

Did you see my results with moving the air temp sensor ?

What are your thoughts on that, couldn't believe the results,

[Ryan S]

I feel exactly the same with my build, low boost, high boost then a "everything it's got" setting!! I did see the results, that must have been a frustrating realisation with regards to previous cars/temp sensors. I'm gonna go all out to keep the bay temps down. I'll be running an identical chargecooler setup to yours, gonna bite the bullet and get the engine cover too. That swirl pot at the rear window is a fantastic idea!!

[Martin F]

It was almost the end of the mule today

Went for a mapping session, 150 mile trip to get there, left the house at 5.45 am to be greeted by wind, fog and much of the journey had whiteout conditions, the lights are really poor, even on full beam they are useless.
At one point I had to pull in and wait for a lorry to pass so I could tail it.

60 odd miles into my journey and in the middle of nowhere I started getting a funny smell, almost like engine coolant, the skies started to brighten so I took of full beam only for smoke to come out from behind the dashboard.
I instantly turned the ignition off and cruised into a parking space, heartbeat racing, running around the car looking for one of my two fire extinguishers

The smoke quickly subsided giving me the chance to get a screwdriver and strip away everything...

I soon realised that the current draw from the crappy headlights must have contributed to the wires overheating and being seconds away from igniting, feel very lucky in all honesty

Anyway, back on topic, the mapping failed to go to plan as always, it wasn't all bad though.....


I am now seeing 350 rwhp and 369 lb/ft at 4850-4900 revs and 1.9 bar of boost, so that is around 70 rwhp more than before for the same revs.
The problem is a restriction on the air out side, either the cams or exhaust being the likely culprit, not sure which but I will start another thread asking for advice on that one. This means it is pretty much flat lining at this power level and boost from 5k revs onwards.
At 1.5 ish bar she climbs to 350 rwhp at high revs so she will be a totally different animal at 1.9 bar on the road now. Just could have been so much better...
Once fixed the current map should see over 420 rwhp at higher revs which should be pretty close to the 500 flywheel mark.

Once the restriction has been figured out I have been advised it's best to take it back for an hours dyno time to make sure it is fuelling right for the extra power this map is going to give, although being a little disappointed the car is going to be a very different drive and hopefully a lot quicker as she stands right now. I am however very glad to be home, both myself and the mule, still the stubborn git she though

One more thing, the chargecooler core kicks ass, highest recorded temp on the dyno at 1.9 bar was 23 degrees, ran smooth as with no knock whatsoever...

[2mad]

chargecooler temps are amazing , good work .. get on top of the wiring issue , my friends car went up years ago while driving , scary stuff

[Martin F]

chargecooler temps are amazing , good work .. get on top of the wiring issue , my friends car went up years ago while driving , scary stuff

You're right, horrible feeling, so lucky the car never went up in flames

[ashley]

What turbine housing do you have on the turbo?

[Martin F]

What turbine housing do you have on the turbo?

No Idea, is it possible that could be contributing to these issues ? Hitting 350 rwhp at 4900 rpm with that going down to 310 rwhp at 7500 rpm

[ashley]

Absolutely...if it's too small it won't be capable of flowing enough to make high top end power, and will just throw your EGTs through the roof as you just pump heat...which is when you start to break things. But you say you're not seeing any det, so guessing you haven't got too many problems (or timing is being pulled to compensate).

If you're on the 0.63 housing you've already peaked (and I wouldn't run it at 1.9 bar anymore!). If you want to see 500hp you'll need to be on the 1.06 housing, but be prepared for more lag.

The 0.82 is normally a good compromise on the 3076 from what I've read, but I can't see you hitting 500hp on it ( which is nigh on 420 rwhp).

Who was doing the mapping?

[Martin F]

Absolutely...if it's too small it won't be capable of flowing enough to make high top end power, and will just throw your EGTs through the roof as you just pump heat...which is when you start to break things. But you say you're not seeing any det, so guessing you haven't got too many problems (or timing is being pulled to compensate).

If you're on the 0.63 housing you've already peaked (and I wouldn't run it at 1.9 bar anymore!). If you want to see 500hp you'll need to be on the 1.06 housing, but be prepared for more lag.

The 0.82 is normally a good compromise on the 3076 from what I've read, but I can't see you hitting 500hp on it ( which is nigh on 420 rwhp).

Who was doing the mapping?

What is the best way of finding out what housing the turbo has ?

I will be running it at 1.5 bar mostly, I do want that high setting just for those special occasions though.
The exhaust is 2.75" (I think) at the bends and the baffle has possibly dislodged, this could be stopping flow at higher boost maybe

Told it was running spot on apart from losing power due to a flow issue, no det anywhere and inlet temps 23 degrees. Oh the joys

[Martin F]

Would it be possible to buy a GTX30 turbo and just swap turbos over, ie. keep all the other parts in place, adapter/downpipe,oil lines etc. , just out of interest ?

Last thing I want to do is buy bits I don't need, ie. if I change the housing, go to the dyno and find the problem is still there, can I maybe buy a EGT gauge ? would that help detect if the housing was at fault ?

[ashley]

The only way to tell what housing you have (assuming you can't ask who originally bought it?) is to pull the turbo off the manifold and have a look in it- it's cast in the inlet to the turbine housing.

Yes- GTX30 would be a direct swap...but you'd need to at least unbolt the downpipe!

What cams have you got? You could try swinging them. My first check would be to pull the turbo and see what you're actually playing with though.

EGT sensor is a possibility- would need a boss welding into your downpipe.

Who mapped the car?

[Martin F]

Trying to get some relevant information posted, sorry if irrelevant...

Could it be cam related ?

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... &start=640

pics of turbo

And the results


Ryan dialled it in to run at 1.6 bar and with the exhaust cam retarded by 6 degrees (exactly what Peter had already dialled in ). He said he could have played with the cams and pulled 450bhp out of it, however it would have been at the expense of mid-range performance and that's basically where you really need it in a road car. My goal was never outright power, it was always 400bhp and a solid/healthy engine. Usable power on the road, not just a car where I only see the real performance on a track.

We took it out for the test drive and mother of god it's quick now! It was quick before, really quick, but it's now to the point where i was sat swearing as soon as he hit boost Spun the wheels up a bit in 2nd gear but was solid in 3rd, which was impressive given the fact the roads were pretty damp. 275s doing their job nicely then

Got home safe and sound, with the Mule feeling perfect on the drive back. To be honest it's actually more settled and well-behaved than my 1 Series.

Net result of the above is a happy Phil It's been one hell of a long, arduous, emotional and expensive 11 months. Today though it was all worthwhile.

Little bit more info...

So before the car was hitting 350 rwhp at high revs and 1.6 bar, now it is only hitting 310 rwhp at 1.9 bar or even 1.5 bar according to a dyno chart I have just looked at......

So if in the past it was seeing 350 rwhp then maybe the fault has something to do with the baffle in the exhaust

Having a few well deserved beers after the car almost going up in flames this morning and just thinking out loud

[Martin F]

Absolutely...if it's too small it won't be capable of flowing enough to make high top end power, and will just throw your EGTs through the roof as you just pump heat...which is when you start to break things. But you say you're not seeing any det, so guessing you haven't got too many problems (or timing is being pulled to compensate).

If you're on the 0.63 housing you've already peaked (and I wouldn't run it at 1.9 bar anymore!). If you want to see 500hp you'll need to be on the 1.06 housing, but be prepared for more lag.

The 0.82 is normally a good compromise on the 3076 from what I've read, but I can't see you hitting 500hp on it ( which is nigh on 420 rwhp).

Who was doing the mapping?

Just being curious Ashley, You have done a lot more research about these turbos but what I don't get is why have so many variants if they are only going to give similar outputs, ie. a gt2871 can hit 400 bhp so what is the point in having a bigger GT3076 that is going to be laggier yet only hit the same figures

[ashley]

Yeah- it's a great question! The trick is to understand as much as you can about your engine, and then choose what suits it the best...compressor maps really help...but then again, there's only so much theory can tell you...in an ideal world turbo manufacturers would offer a try before you buy policy

[Martin F]

Yeah- it's a great question! The trick is to understand as much as you can about your engine, and then choose what suits it the best...compressor maps really help...but then again, there's only so much theory can tell you...in an ideal world turbo manufacturers would offer a try before you buy policy

Doesn't help , I think I am going to go down the route of cheapest to dearest, so exhaust, then cams, then turbo....

Pretty sure I am going to need a clutch before this journey ends also, it's not the cheapest of hobbies