living with the shame

[Lauren]

Just out of curiosity, why downfArce??? not downforce??? Are we talking real driving stiles here???

I call it 'downfarce' mainly because thats what it its..

Its a hang up from another forum.

[LimeyMk1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought there was a fundamental difference between a spoiler and a wing. The wing was there to produce downforce (F1 etc), whilst a spoiler was put on the car to reduce turbulence directly behind the car. The TT being the best example (but the MK1 as well), it wasn't the lack of downforce which made it unstable but the the effect of air tubulence close to the rear end, a spoiler basically moves said turbulence further away from the back of the car.

[GeoffC320]

[quote="MR2Mania]
Geoff, the McLaren F1 used an "air brake" purely to give it stability during high speed braking (as you suggest, by moving the weight distribution of the car by using aerodynamics). The majority of it's downforce came from it's diffuser and powerful fans pulling air from underneath the car, creating a sort of ground-effect.[/quote]

Quite. As Dino says, the 'air brake' on the McLaren F1 only popped up under heavy braking to improve stability. The coolest part of that was that they also used this to expose cooling ducts which helped funnel hot away from the rear brakes at the same time! True lateral thinking. I would highly recommend the book 'Driving Ambition' about the conception of the F1 as it contains LOADS of useful info about high-performance car design!

The point about the spoilers smoothing out/moving the turbulence is well made also. Without seeing the wind-tunnel results you don't know where this turbulence is actually present. If you add on a 'universal' aftermarket wing you have no idea if you're actually placing it in a position to actually trap air underneath it and cause rear-end lift - the opposite of what you want! Since you'd only find out at (probably) 3-figure speeds, this is why I wouldn't mess.

Not saying by the way that everyone who's done this has actually experienced this....but if not it was more by luck than judgement IMO.

Just re-reading the original post, I suspect the guy spotted your car from some way off and what with the mods you've got this does tend to 'inspire' people to have a go...I get enough of this & mine just looks like a Rev5 with a big pipe. As it is he probably got the jump on you and it's hard to react quick enough a lot of the time to avoid looking bad , unless your car genunely is a lot quicker.

Unfortunately time has moved on...the SW20 N/A was a quick car 15 or even 10 years ago but these days really that level of performance is not uncommon from some fairly everyday type of cars.

Just enjoy the fact you've got something a bit more individual...and if that's not enough there's always the turbo option!

[Karl]

for the high power cars out there with no spoilers they usually gain sufficiant downforce from attention to other factors/areas such as body shape.

MR2mania;

"Mate, you REALLY need to find out a bit more about aerodynamics!

The best form of downforce achieved on road cars is through flat bottoms and diffusers"

did u read what i said? 'gain sufficiant downforce from attention to other factors/areas' <<< e.g body shape

Karl

[alex205mi16]

it could have been someone like me.. old 205... more modern mi16 1.9 16v engine..

190 bhp per tonne.. ish...although i cant play with tubby's

if you cant beat em then join em... so i hopefully will be..lol

did it look like this:

[Karl]

hey mate...

nah it was a bit more modern, slightly rounded. wish i knew what it was! somedays i think it was an old clio, other times im almost sure it was a pug (when i see them about) but it was night time and tbh i wasnt interested in them, wasnt till they came up my ar$e they became a problem

[senie]

wasnt till they came up my bum they became a problem

think you could be on the wrong website!!!

[Lauren]

and tbh i wasnt interested in them, wasnt till they came up my bum they became a problem

PMSL *wipes tear.....

that must be the best faux pas i've seen on IMOC. absolute classic!

[MR2Mania]

wasnt till they came up my bum they became a problem

think you could be on the wrong website!!!

ROFL!! CLASS, pure CLASS!!

Truly "bu88ered" by a Pug, hey?

[alex205mi16]

man that guy really owns you.. ondertook you and gave you one up the bournville lane!!!!

the topic title really seesm to fit now..


lol!!

[Frustrated Pilot]

Karl.. i'm afraid to say most of those larger litre blue shopping carts in the picture above will pi$$ all over an N/A then reverse up to take a dump on the N/A then reverse over your eye lyds....!!!

if it was the newer clios there are something like 190 ps. which is A LOT better then the mr2 n/A .. sorry it just is...

plus they weigh a lot less....!!!!!!

for a 14 year old car the mr2 n/a was very quick in its time. but toyora being one of the first few companies to break the 200 bhp mark with an afforadble car has lead so some serious development in the car industry.

now look at the mr2 1990 model and compare it to the lustre looks of a ford escort.. cough cough...

if i was the cheif designer of the escort i would have been so embarrised i would never show my face again....

the mr2 m2 doesnt look old... but is starting to show its age now... unless you have a rev 5 + (plus meing modded) ...

this unfortunate modding bug we have... including me.. means im spending a lot of my money... the bad thing is.. even the new granny cars, the honda civic type r is quicker than my 2.

not happy about this personally.... as i hate ALL hatchbacks...... i just do..


i also dont believe you can market a car as Jaguar has done recently. "the new XXX type spots model"

ITS A fri88ing ESTATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOME ONE SHOULD GO TO THEM AND SHOW THEM WHAT A fri88ing FERRARI LOOKS LIKE....!!!!!! IF AN ESTATE IS A SPORTS CAR.... THEN WHAT IS A SPORTS CAR??????????????????????????????????

hatchbacks and larger litres = quick cars....

to be able to p1$$ over cars including the bmw 3 litre series cars... YOU MUST HAVE A 300BHP TUBBY.

then..... you will be able to grin as you overtake the scum bags...

lastly, i must add... im my experience ... with an n/a it is better to let the boy racers past than to show your self up.... pick your battles carefully...

i was however cghallenged the otherday by a 200zx turbo... and ikept up with him VERY WELL!!!!

but why.. i ask myself.. was he trying.. well yes!.. did he know how to use his gears... no.... therefore i made an impression the mr2 n/a is quite quick...

but karl... did you hold each gear in until it reached the red line? unless you do... no chance m8....

the n/a wont have any power...

tiz why a tubby is me next plan.

i have had enough of those vr6's also... and its time to get my own back..

[alex205mi16]

OI, lay off the shopping kart...LOL...i can show up quite a few machines of better quality and $$$, in a straight line and round twisties.... until is throws a wobbler.

the clio williams really is a good car, handles soooo well!!

But i def agree with the point of comparing a 1992 jap car to what others had on offer...ford vaux etc they should hold their heads in shame. one of My old cars, a 1992 crx came with traction control,abs, ps elcetric everything, air con and an amazing electric roof... what did the ford/ vaux /pug/cit/ offer at that time in terms of technology and build quality??

nothing on that level, and have been playing catch up ever since..

as for estates not being a sports car, anyone for an Audi RS8/ or 6 for that matter??

or even an RS2? a porrsche with audi skin??

[Frustrated Pilot]

this is my point!!!!

now im not saying the mr2 is the best looking car for the 1990's.. its a matter of opinion... and thats why people bought other cars..

but it certainly went well huh?

but i can say these things as i doubt i will be shot down in flames especailly here..

but as a matter of power.... VR6's ... poor show poor show...

i cant even out perform on of these... and its like a Y reg or something.. but i certainly gave him a run for his money...

but i hold each gear in until it reaches 6.5 - 7 k .. just before my limiter comes into play.... and my shifting is REAL quick .... i mean lightning fast...!! compared to other drivers... (NOT THE QUICKEST but quite good)

infact so quick the synchromesh has problems keeping up with me

but definately quicker than these boy racers...

... im so good huh?

[Karl]

haha like the jokes above, i had that coming, (the joke that is) lol

=D>

[Sidewinder]

a 1992 crx came with traction control,abs, ps elcetric everything, air con and an amazing electric roof... what did the ford/ vaux /pug/cit/ offer at that time in terms of technology and build quality??

Ahem! Don't forget the Vauxhall Astra Mk2 GTE (the 2.0l 16v one). Digital dashboard, 155 BHP bomb-proof engine, usual electric stuff plus trip/fuel computer. I ate many a 1.9 Pug GTi off the lights in my yoof with one of these (although the 'handling' took some getting used to)!

Also the Calibra Turbo 4x4; 200 BHP engine, six gears, four wheel drive, etc. Not a bad car once you got used to the chronic understeer and the weird gear ratios.

However, I get your point, though. These were just two examples of the time.

[MegatronUK]

a 1992 crx came with traction control,abs, ps elcetric everything, air con and an amazing electric roof... what did the ford/ vaux /pug/cit/ offer at that time in terms of technology and build quality??

Ahem! Don't forget the Vauxhall Astra Mk2 GTE (the 2.0l 16v one). Digital dashboard, 155 BHP bomb-proof engine, usual electric stuff plus trip/fuel computer. I ate many a 1.9 Pug GTi off the lights in my yoof with one of these (although the 'handling' took some getting used to)!

Heh, great engine... so-so car... what you want to do is this:




RAAARP!

Back on topic... True. There were some storming home-grown performers at that time. Just remember how much things like the MR2, Supra, 300ZX, 200SX and similar cost at the time.... comparing them to everyday european cars like the Astra, Escort and others is not exactly fair, is it? Something more equivalent would be the Sierra Cosworth, Lancia Delta HF's or even, in the early 90's, shock horror, the 2.0 turbo-ed Rovers (yes, pipe and slippers, but they're bonkers quick for what they are) along with the Cav/Calibra turbo's.

[Quigonjay]

that your mate? cool car, love the old escorts
Jay

[MegatronUK]

Yep, 31 years old this year.

[Quigonjay]

bit older than my 27 year old lotus then
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=396
Jay

[anna]

i also dont believe you can market a car as Jaguar has done recently. "the new XXX type spots model"

ITS A fri88ing ESTATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOME ONE SHOULD GO TO THEM AND SHOW THEM WHAT A fri88ing FERRARI LOOKS LIKE....!!!!!! IF AN ESTATE IS A SPORTS CAR.... THEN WHAT IS A SPORTS CAR??????????????????????????????????

Sort of depends on your definition of 'sports' really though doesn't it....
Personally, I don't have a problem with manufacturers highlighting (in the easiest way possible) that a certain car in their range has (over and above the average model) a better engine, or stiffer suspension or other bits and bobs that might be associated with a more 'sporty' car.

If you really have a problem with the use of 'sports', how would you define an SUV?

Tbh, for truly exceptional, good handling, no compromise car, I'd use the words 'GT' and 'Supercar'.... but that's just me...