All the way on stock internals....

[AM TUNING]

yes it can be done, it will run just dont expect it to last long at proloned boost levels


and just like mark explained i dont tune engines ,, i pay some one else to do that,, i stick to what i know ,,

[Bender Unit]

T's all in the state of Tune.... Its nothing to do with how strong things are..!!! Our Engines and internals are strong if tuned right with the right compliment of fuel and cooling..

If my engine blows then i will eat my words... but im making sure everything is done properly whilst tuning.

It has allready been proved that Stock Internals can take a high amount of boost on a high mileage engine.

Erm ... go for it and push it, "dont fix it if it isnt broken" etc but understand that it could cost you more in the long run.

However in the worst case I will predict that a ring land will go in a very unspectacular way and you will just need to rebuild it. As the ring land is the weakest part of the whole engine I cant see it exploding in a shitty mess.

Just a point but you say you will make sure everything is being done properly whilst tuning? Can you tune an EMS? If not how will you know if its being done properly?

Sorry but I personally feel there are very few decent tuners in the UK and you and your wallet are at their mercy, they get it wrong and its an "oh sorry heres a bill for our time, better look at getting a rebuild then!"

Your making alot of comparison to US based tuner cars, remember that just because 1 or 2 guys in the Us have got their cars mapped to those levels on stock internals dosnt mean you will do it with your mapper.

At the end of the day you could end up paying for mapping just for the engine to blow on the rollers - you will then have to repeat this cost again when the engine is built.

Also be aware that mapping isnt as cut and shut as a day on the rollers and its done. Look at the other high powered cars on this list and you will see many are still in states of tranisition and constantly having their maps updated. Look at the US cars that have acheived good power on stock internals and then ask how long the mapping took, it will probably run into weeks of constant improving and updating.

If I was looking at mapping I would get the gear to do it all myself so I know its being done right.

Go for it I say, if your prepared for when it breaks and accept that it will happen and the costs associated when it does then thats a good attitude to have.

Cheers

James

[^Trickster^]

I suppose it would have to be tuned by AM Tuning aswell?

Graeme

It'd be hard as he only does mechanical work.

And what's the b!tchy comment for anyway?

i just cant see the logic here,,

unless u have a fully rebuilt engine waiting to go in and want to find out how long your old tired block lasts before it goes bang..

yes u can run 25psi on a tdo6 with good management but what will it prove ,, it will prove to u that it WILL cost u more money in the long run when u not only need new pistons u also need a rebore, and possably a new block if it goes big time,,,

sorry but if u want 25psi then put forgies in the and get a good head gasket in there at least,,

Im sorry but to me thats just undermiming everyone who has commented as if to say "your all wrong and im right" maybe my interpretation of it, but it seems theres alot of people that like jumping on the boat at the last minute and sticking their comment in, then alot of other people who seem to be up others 4rses.

I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

Sometimes its like if your not an affiliate or a moderator your not right.

Graeme

[Andy Conroy]

T's all in the state of Tune.... Its nothing to do with how strong things are..!!! Our Engines and internals are strong if tuned right with the right compliment of fuel and cooling..

If my engine blows then i will eat my words... but im making sure everything is done properly whilst tuning.

It has allready been proved that Stock Internals can take a high amount of boost on a high mileage engine.

Erm ... go for it and push it, "dont fix it if it isnt broken" etc but understand that it could cost you more in the long run.

However in the worst case I will predict that a ring land will go in a very unspectacular way and you will just need to rebuild it. As the ring land is the weakest part of the whole engine I cant see it exploding in a shitty mess.

Just a point but you say you will make sure everything is being done properly whilst tuning? Can you tune an EMS? If not how will you know if its being done properly?

Sorry but I personally feel there are very few decent tuners in the UK and you and your wallet are at their mercy, they get it wrong and its an "oh sorry heres a bill for our time, better look at getting a rebuild then!"

Your making alot of comparison to US based tuner cars, remember that just because 1 or 2 guys in the Us have got their cars mapped to those levels on stock internals dosnt mean you will do it with your mapper.

At the end of the day you could end up paying for mapping just for the engine to blow on the rollers - you will then have to repeat this cost again when the engine is built.

Also be aware that mapping isnt as cut and shut as a day on the rollers and its done. Look at the other high powered cars on this list and you will see many are still in states of tranisition and constantly having their maps updated. Look at the US cars that have acheived good power on stock internals and then ask how long the mapping took, it will probably run into weeks of constant improving and updating.

If I was looking at mapping I would get the gear to do it all myself so I know its being done right.

Go for it I say, if your prepared for when it breaks and accept that it will happen and the costs associated when it does then thats a good attitude to have.

Cheers

James

If a ringland fails isnt it due to Detonation? This goes back to my comment on state of tune.

With going for a stock headgasket that will be the first to go if anything...


Agreed in the fact that there is not many Tuners out there that will risk taking the car to the limit.... Things like Reputation come into mind so Tuners will automatically tune rich for safety.

I would love to learn how to tune my own EMS and i will certainly look into doing that once i have a base tune to play with..

At the End of the Day my EGT and Airfuel with be my best friend as well as a good stethascope.

Its allready been said that a certain amount of luck is involved in this and you can only take so many precautions in tuning methods...

Time will Tell in all of this but thanks for the luck (i will need it)

Cheers,

Andy

[Mark Edwards]

I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

As does he. You're entitled to you opinion and he's entitled to his, if you don't happen to agree with it there's no need to reply the way you did is there.

[^Trickster^]

There is always a limit tho, as stated, forged pistons can handle more detonation, when on the dyno, you will get detonation in small ammounts, depending on the tuner, they could see too much and kill the stock pistons where forged ones would not be harmed.

Also you could have an electrical/mechanical problem later down the line, which could cause you to run slightly lean for a short period of time (perhaps bad overboost) which would destroy your pistons, where once again the forged ones would survive.

So again, its luck of the draw.

The ringlands do normally go as James said, and it might need more boring out to repair than it would just to upgrade making the cylinder thinner, or just get another block.

Its your own decision at the end of the day, Ive heard stories before that some tuners wont tune an engine to a drastic length without forged pistons installed, wether thats true or not i dont know.

Graeme

[^Trickster^]

I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

As does he. You're entitled to you opinion and he's entitled to his, if you don't happen to agree with it there's no need to reply the way you did is there.

Well I didnt agree with the way he replied so im entitled to my view on that also.

No point carrying it any further imo

Graeme

[Mark Edwards]

Constructive criticism is what this is supposed to be about. IMOC is turning into one big b1tch festival lately.

[AM TUNING]

quote
I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

unquote,,


yes thats just what i do to ,, ive seen a engine run at 23psi for about 1/2 a year and saw what it did when it went bang,,,

if fact it cought the engine bay alight due to the oil that came out off the pcv hose ,


but lets all be honest here if it wont for sites like this that share our ideas and thoughts we would all pay the mistakes ourselves

[^Trickster^]

quote
I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

unquote,,


yes thats just what i do to ,, ive seen a engine run at 23psi for about 1/2 a year and saw what it did when it went bang,,,

if fact it cought the engine bay alight due to the oil that came out off the pcv hose ,


but lets all be honest here if it wont for sites like this that share our ideas and thoughts we would all pay the mistakes ourselves

Yes I understand and appologise, I dont come on here for arguements.

Stock internals are not designed for 23psi of consistant daily driving, but, it is possible, and no, i wouldnt do it! But I would run 17psi daily and use 23psi at the track etc if I was willing to just pick up another block afterwards.

I hope he was carrying a fire extinguisher!

Graeme

[Andy Conroy]

quote
I just give my comment from personal experiences and thing I have tried or have seen tried.

unquote,,


yes thats just what i do to ,, ive seen a engine run at 23psi for about 1/2 a year and saw what it did when it went bang,,,

if fact it cought the engine bay alight due to the oil that came out off the pcv hose ,


but lets all be honest here if it wont for sites like this that share our ideas and thoughts we would all pay the mistakes ourselves

Yes I understand and appologise, I dont come on here for arguements.

Stock internals are not designed for 23psi of consistant daily driving, but, it is possible, and no, i wouldnt do it! But I would run 17psi daily and use 23psi at the track etc if I was willing to just pick up another block afterwards.

I hope he was carrying a fire extinguisher!

Graeme

What ever boost pressure or mods you run at.. if you nail it all day every day you are going to get premature engine failure... allright the risk is dramatically increased with a modified one...

You could be literally going 40mph in 5th gear and you would get engine failure... Who knows when these things happen..

In my book there is no such thing as 100 per cent reliable engine no matter where it is stock or modified.

[AM TUNING]

yes lucky enuf he was ,,

from that point onwards i will never recommend a crankcase filter on the pcv line with out running it through a catch tank first ,, it was the oil from piston failure that took the engine bay up ,,

[Mark Edwards]

In my book there is no such thing as 100 per cent reliable engine no matter where it is stock or modified.

Agreed, but you can minimize the chances by building in the right bits first time round.

I think you're extremely brave attempting what you're going to and i personally wouldn't recommend it after my own experiences with mine.

[^Trickster^]

Thats why I always say its luck of the draw, one of my mates is into cosworths, he turns the boost up on all of them, hardly maintains them, just throws bigger injectors in and does the cheapest crappest more poor quality mods and never seems to hurt anything.

Another friend with a GT4 looks after his car like hes going to be buried with it, then driving along it spins a bearing.

Graeme

[^Trickster^]

yes lucky enuf he was ,,

from that point onwards i will never recommend a crankcase filter on the pcv line with out running it through a catch tank first ,, it was the oil from piston failure that took the engine bay up ,,

Steve Cordiners (spelling) went up from oil spilling onto the exhaust manifold.

I have an extinguisher behind my seat, rev 3 have a nice little stock catch can that drains back to the head im sure you have seen them before.

Graeme

[Andy Conroy]

Thanks for everyone's opnion on this... If my engine Blows i will be the 1st to hold my hand up and say i should of listened..

BUt i am confident and willing to press my luck with Stock Internals and running high boost pressure...

Time will Tell....

[AM TUNING]

yes keep us informed on how u get on,,

[Mark Edwards]

Thanks for everyone's opnion on this... If my engine Blows i will be the 1st to hold my hand up and say i should of listened..

BUt i am confident and willing to press my luck with Stock Internals and running high boost pressure...

Time will Tell....

Well all i can say mate is the best of luck.

[TomThumb]

*tomthumb grabs his popcorn

[TBDevelopments]

sorry but if u want 25psi then put forgies in the and get a good head gasket in there at least

=D>

I see we follow the same lines here andi.

I've got a car capable of touch under 400bhp but i'm limiting myself to around 310bhp until i get the engine build to handle the power. I really can't understand why you would want to do this unless you were doing this for research into the engines standard potential.

Like many have said it will all be down to the guy mapping the ecu. But i say shame on the tuner who allows the customer to do this to his own car. If i had a shadow of a doubt that the job i was doing to a customers car would leave it damaged or dangerously unreliable i just wouldn't do it simple as. If the customer wants to turn the boost up when hes left its upto him but i wouldn't put someone elses car in danger of being damaged just to get a good result. Every car i treat as my own, and when i boot my car i don't want a feeling of will it or won't it blow up this time, i want complete confidence in what i've built and what i give my customers.

sbits don't mean to butt in or undermine your knowledge as i have alot of respect for what you've accomplished but if your going to say something is possible please for his sake at least talk him into fitting some forgies and a metal head gasket. 25psi with that turbo and our tuners etc is going to be like a armed hand grenade...................its gonna blow just a matter of when.

Sorry if that seems like a rant just my opinion that i feel strongly about.

Tim
xxxx