Tim Bill and IMOC-UK

[Speedy]

I am not for an anonymous vote simply because it can be populated by friends of friends and multiple second accounts, and it's not fair to limit it to only premium members.

Wow, out of 7800+ members how many of those accounts do you think are multiple account used by the same people?

Is the system that flawed? Isn't an anonymous vote precisely the system we use to elect new moderators who could then go on to become committee members?

I'm sure there are some dup accounts in there somewhere. It's not quite the same system as we run for moderators, since the last time we did it for moderators, we ran it as only premium members only who could vote. We'll probably do the same again when we next have to elect people.

I think putting your name down and registering your unhappiness with the situation is far more effective tbh. Let's face it 90% or more of IMOC probably don't care either way anyway so a vote won't achieve much.

It's democracy, the right to make a choice without fear that you might be persecuted for your choice.

As an example, general political elections have a low turnout, maybe instead of having to drag our asses to the polling station we could just put a board in the front window stating our party of choice. Can you see any downsides to having a big poster saying BNP in your window?

IMO, a poll is perfect, a simple yes, no, who cares?

Nik

Really, it's a way for people to voice their concerns and let of steam about the whole issue, in order to show the depth of feeling. I don't really want to start *another* thread about the whole thing, since then we'll have comments split between the two.. and thats assuming that the voting thing could be co-erced to work in the first place anyway

[nailmonkey]

I imagine there are several multiple accounts, and a few more created at the thought of a poll...most elections only get about 30 people anyway. It wouldn't take many friends of friends to tip it now would it?

I take your point about elections and anonymity, but at least this way IMOC cannot be accused of rigging the poll.

T

If this is such a big issue surely several multiple accounts won't make much of a difference. As for the election, sure they only get about 30 people, there's no compulsion to do it and no option to abstain. Yes, it wouldn't take many 'friends of friends' to swing an election, but the moderator elections are purely a popularity contest anyway, it's not like there are any technical criteria.

Good point about allegations of poll rigging but this is just a fact of life with any election. Maybe the polls should be outsourced to MORI or somebody, lol.

Nik

[nailmonkey]

I'm sure there are some dup accounts in there somewhere. It's not quite the same system as we run for moderators, since the last time we did it for moderators, we ran it as only premium members only who could vote. We'll probably do the same again when we next have to elect people.

I'm sure there are, I had to set another account when this one was locked out and I couldn't contact any mods/admins via email even via the email on the whois info. I did ask for this account to be deleted as soon as I got my password reset though.

RE mod elections, IIRC there was quite a furore about only premium members been allowed to vote and again, IIRC, non-premium members were allowed to vote by proxy, simply PM a mod and they would submit your vote, so just as simple to have multiple accounts.

Really, it's a way for people to voice their concerns and let of steam about the whole issue, in order to show the depth of feeling. I don't really want to start *another* thread about the whole thing, since then we'll have comments split between the two.. and thats assuming that the voting thing could be co-erced to work in the first place anyway

I see what your saying, but that make the whole 'group buy' list useless, you could make a poll vote only, no comments allowed?

The problem is, it's splitting members into two camps, we even have moderators in the 'group buy' list and moderators with xxxx in their sig. I think if nothing else the committee/moderators should be showing a united front.....

Nik

[Leon.]

Nik, the moderator elections are done by members posting their support for an individual candidate on a thread, so their username is clear for all to see. I hope I'm right on that...

[the moderator elections are purely a popularity contest anyway, it's not like there are any technical criteria.

But how would you judge people on technical criteria since you know nothing about them!

I think it works fine, people that frequent the forums get a good idea about members and their suitability for the role(s). Of course there's a bit of popularity involved but there's often a reason why they're popular.

[RichLee]

Out of curiosity, if I get 3 formal warnings and get banned can I come back as an affiliate?



If the answer is 'NO' then this whole thing is a farce.

Erm...he came back as a regular member with all trading rights removed?

Strange how my post has gone unoticed

[Speedy]

Nik, the moderator elections are done by members posting their support for an individual candidate on a thread, so their username is clear for all to see. I hope I'm right on that...

Thats partially correct - in order for a moderator to stand for election, they have to be nominated by people in the first place. That is done publicly.

[nailmonkey]

Nik, the moderator elections are done by members posting their support for an individual candidate on a thread, so their username is clear for all to see. I hope I'm right on that...

Thats partially correct - in order for a moderator to stand for election, they have to be nominated by people in the first place. That is done publicly.

They only have to be seconded by two members and then the thread is locked, so it's hardly a representation of the whole membership. The actual voting is anonymous, just because you second someone to stand does *not* mean you have to vote for them.

It's getting slightly OT though, my point was; if an anonymous poll is so flawed why do we elect moderators this way?

Nik

Edit: PS, can we have an anonymous poll to see who is in favour of an anonymous poll.
Edit: Due to error pointed out by Leeroy below.

[Leon.]

just because you second someone to stand does mean you have to vote for them.

Assume you meant:

just because you second someone to stand does not mean you have to vote for them.

Not being anal but just a bit confused as to what you're saying...

[nailmonkey]

Yes, that's what I meant.

Nik

[DavidM]

My thoughts on the recent developments:
A vote or a list one way or the other are not needed, nor indeed in keeping with the spirit of the club.
Decision's were made based upon the club rules and ultimately a ban was imposed.
A loophole around the club rules was found and used by threatening legal action.
As I see it each membership is used by one person whether an affiliate or not and therefore if that person breaks the rules then necessary action is taken which may ultimately lead to a ban.
The elected committee upheld the clubs rules, there was no other option open to them. In fact from my reading of this situation the only thing they did that can be seen as incorrect was deliberatly waiting for one formal warning to expire before the fourth warning was issued thereby allowing Tim to escape a ban. In doing this the committe have shown they bent over backwards to encourage Tim to keep within the rules.
No one member is bigger than the Club.
The committee need to be supported on their stance and not subjected to abuse or barbed comments. They volunteer to give up their own time for no reward other than knowing that their efforts make this forum a fair and generally friendly place where MR2 owners can come together and discuss all matters MR2 without being subject to the type of behaviour exhibited on other forums.
And finally, Tim if you are reading this please ask Ed to stop posting in your defence. It's far from helping your cause. Perhaps if you accept the situation, as you say you have done, and let a reasonable period of time elapse, then who knows what the future may hold.

[EdMR2]

Skinthespin your feelings towards another affiliate is neither here or there on this post. Although i have been present when Tim's contacted you numerous times to try and work out your hostilities and your total lack of understanding or ability to talk about your problems. There are a few member that have felt the same about Tim when he first joined but they are now supporters or use him heavily for parts and advice. They atleast talked about there problem towards him.

If you want to talk about this futher PM Me.

Committee i take it that report i posted about a moderator posting incorrect information to cause trouble is being ignored as i've not got a reply?

DavidM Tim's asked me many times to stop posting on this thread, These words are my own not his.

Your voting to ban Tim, but hes already left. so your wasting your Tim. Me i think this club is pathetic and i'm leaving after this thread is locked.

Keep adding the names it means nothing to me.................

[Draven]

My thoughts on the recent developments:
A vote or a list one way or the other are not needed, nor indeed in keeping with the spirit of the club.
Decision's were made based upon the club rules and ultimately a ban was imposed.
A loophole around the club rules was found and used by threatening legal action.
As I see it each membership is used by one person whether an affiliate or not and therefore if that person breaks the rules then necessary action is taken which may ultimately lead to a ban.
The elected committee upheld the clubs rules, there was no other option open to them. In fact from my reading of this situation the only thing they did that can be seen as incorrect was deliberatly waiting for one formal warning to expire before the fourth warning was issued thereby allowing Tim to escape a ban. In doing this the committe have shown they bent over backwards to encourage Tim to keep within the rules.
No one member is bigger than the Club.
The committee need to be supported on their stance and not subjected to abuse or barbed comments. They volunteer to give up their own time for no reward other than knowing that their efforts make this forum a fair and generally friendly place where MR2 owners can come together and discuss all matters MR2 without being subject to the type of behaviour exhibited on other forums.
And finally, Tim if you are reading this please ask Ed to stop posting in your defence. It's far from helping your cause. Perhaps if you accept the situation, as you say you have done, and let a reasonable period of time elapse, then who knows what the future may hold.

100% agree with you..

[Draven]

Keep adding the names it means nothing to me.................

if it means nothing why continue to post ?

[Speedy]

Committee i take it that report i posted about a moderator posting incorrect information to cause trouble is being ignored as i've not got a reply?

Looks like we think there is enough circumstancial evidence (IP address, common spelling/typos) for us to not be 100% convinced that is isn't true.

Your voting to ban Tim, but hes already left. so your wasting your Tim.

Sorry, but glol

[Leon.]

DavidM Tim's asked me many times to stop posting on this thread, These words are my own not his.

So why do you continue? If you're not acting on his request then you're obviously here to be a PITA.

Your voting to ban Tim, but hes already left. so your wasting your Tim. Me i think this club is pathetic and i'm leaving after this thread is locked.

Why do you have to wait until then? Since Tim has supposedly left, this thread would die if you left... The voting is for both of you, and to make things more official.

Keep adding the names it means nothing to me.................

Good, so stop bringing it up then.

[Leon.]

Your voting to ban Tim, but hes already left. so your wasting your Tim.

Sorry, but glol

PMSL

[luthor1]

Doesn't EDMR2's insistance that he won't leave until this thread is locked against *some* rule of posting on this forum? Sounds threatening to me, and trouble-making.

This thread is remaining open for the members and IMOC community to discuss and understand what's going on regarding Tim. It's not here to be locked. It's purpose is not to mop up all the feelings into one place and then be locked out of sight-out-of-mind is it? It's here as a platform to discuss what's been going on. Personally I struggle with the situation - TIM is a person who happens to be an affiliate, HE has written the things that caused the ban, but only the affiliate status is removed? If he wasn't an affiliate, then he would himself be banned. Doesn't change WHAT he did as a person does it? He said it, he wrote it, he got the warnings, but the punishment is only to have affiliate status removed.

If Tim HAS infact left, then shouldn't the committee know because the TIM-B account will no longer exist? If he has left, can that TIM-B account be deleted?

Once this business is history, then IMOC can get back to normal?

[EdMR2]

This thread had finished but someone brought it all back up.

The only way this will stop is to lock the thread, Don't even know what most of your are arguing anymore for. Everythings been said.

Even if i leave as well this won't stop, a few sellect members will continue to bad mouth him which i think is wrong.

Ed

[Draven]

This thread had finished but someone brought it all back up.

The only way this will stop is to lock the thread, Don't even know what most of your are arguing anymore for. Everythings been said.

Even if i leave as well this won't stop, a few sellect members will continue to bad mouth him which i think is wrong.

Ed

So you want to stop everyone having their own opinion.. ? You want to stop people talking about someone behind thier back ?

Get real man..

People will always gossip and b1tch about people.. all your doing is providing ammo..

So in any case your making things worse..

[EdMR2]

ok i'll leave it for now. Lets see if it dies off, i bet someone will continue bitching.

I just think its funny how this thread would have been locked if it was concerning any other person, this can been seen all over this forum.

Ed.