Overtaking on the left - illegal or not?

[Lauren]

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be taught to a much higher standard, and have to re-take periodically to prove their high driving standards.

I think the key word is is "skill". Driving well (and knowing how to handle a car) is a skill. Not everyone is skilled enough. Just as not evryone is skilled enough to be a professional footballer for example.

The difference is that driving is as much everyone's right as it is to walk down the road. Our economy relies on 99.9% of people being able to pass a driving test, so that they can go out and do their jobs.

Like I said earlier, why is there not more insentive to become a better trained driver? I would definitely pay to try and pass higher level driving tests if I knew that there would be clear and decent % discounts on insurance.

Re: driving whilst holding a phone: I'm shocked at how people have fallen back into old habits. Why aren't the penalties much higher?

M25 has the worst bunch of idiots on it, I'm glad I don't have to use it often.

Well yes most drivers don't possess the ability, but i'm not saying that everyone should reach a level that is that high, i'm just saying that by dumbing down driving standards it ensures that people have to drive more slowly. A lack of lane discipline is an example of this because it slows the traffic flow.

Putting a comma before 'and' is not grammatically correct. Its just a pet hate of mine.

[GeoffC320]

Putting a comma before 'and' is not grammatically correct. Its just a pet hate of mine.

I'm sure there should be an apostrophe when using the shortened form of "it is"...

[Lauren]

Putting a comma before 'and' is not grammatically correct. Its just a pet hate of mine.

I'm sure there should be an apostrophe when using the shortened form of "it is"...

Two wrongs don't make a right, honey.

[mattcambs]

Putting a comma before 'and' is not grammatically correct. Its just a pet hate of mine.

I'm sure there should be an apostrophe when using the shortened form of "it is"...

nice one Geoff

Lauren, you have a lot of pet hates! My grammar is a fvcking million times better than most people on here. Excuse my French.

Your "dumbing down" theory is hillarious though. The driving test has become harder and longer over the years.

The reason for poor lane discipline is the increasing amount of traffic on the roads. Lazy people can't be bothered to move back to the inside lane because there's a lorry a 1/4 of a mile ahead. People who lack confidence prefer to sit in the middle lane because they feel safer there. People in BMWs prefer to sit in the outside lane.........just kidding!

There was a comment about better lane discipline in Europe earlier. I have to say that from experience of driving in France, I wouldn't say this was that obvious to me. What was obvious, though, was that on their motorways they drove extremely fast, overtook at the last minute and if they couldn't overtake they were happy to sit a foot from your bumper whilst doing 80mph +. The French, I thought, drove like suicide bombers.

[zak_godsell]

when this situation arrises i give them 5 seconds to move over,if they do not i will undertake.simple.there are to many people driving around at 65mph in the fast lane reading/talking on the phone/talking to passengers and having to look at them.this is dangerous driving and i want to get out of there way as soon as possible.i am aware that it is illegal but i do it as safely as possible and if the yanks can do it why cant we

[Lauren]

There was a comment about better lane discipline in Europe earlier. I have to say that from experience of driving in France, I wouldn't say this was that obvious to me. What was obvious, though, was that on their motorways they drove extremely fast, overtook at the last minute and if they couldn't overtake they were happy to sit a foot from your bumper whilst doing 80mph +. The French, I thought, drove like suicide bombers.

Try Germany. Much better. Must admit i found France, Belgium, Holland and Germany much better in terms of general lane discipline. Yes people do tend to drive faster and some will sit close to you. That in itself doesn't bother me and i still much prefer it to the poor driving standards in this country.

The driving test is totally different these days from what i hear. I did the old style test in '89, before parallel parking and the like and obviously way before the theory test came into practice.

The test may have got harder in some respects but it still doesn't seem to be doing anything to address the lane discipline problem, particularly so on motorways.

And yes, your grammar is better than a lot of people on here (though that in itself is not terribly difficult), but please remember not to put a comma after 'and'. Also please do not circumnavigate the swear filter.

[Sidewinder]

The test may have got harder in some respects but it still doesn't seem to be doing anything to address the lane discipline problem, particularly so on motorways.

A few of my chums took motorway lessons after passing their test, but only one of them actively uses proper lane discipline these days.

I think many people don't bother using the correct lane because they can't pull out to overtake...due to other people's crap use of the lanes.! So it goes on.

I don't agree with undertaking, but can definitely understand why people do it.

[mattcambs]

I think many people don't bother using the correct lane because they can't pull out to overtake...due to other people's crap use of the lanes.! So it goes on.

You've actually hit the nail on the head.

The driving test is totally different these days from what i hear. I did the old style test in '89, before parallel parking and the like and obviously way before the theory test came into practice.

The test may have got harder in some respects but it still doesn't seem to be doing anything to address the lane discipline problem, particularly so on motorways.

You're right, it isn't addressing the problem. I was lucky in that my Dad is a driving instructor. He actually insisted on giving me some motorway lesson after I had passed.

When you think about it, it doesn't actually make sense that you are not allowed to learn to drive on the motorway, but can use it straight after passing your test.

And yes, your grammar is better than a lot of people on here (though that in itself is not terribly difficult), but please remember not to put a comma after 'and'. Also please do not circumnavigate the swear filter.

Oh, Lauren you are so endearing I think we should start a campaign for proper spelling and grammar. Wat u fink?

,and

[Andy Champ]

For the avoidance of doubt, what's your definition of elderly?

<waves>

I was on the M25 today and I saw a lovely example of why the current law doesn't work. There I was doing ...err... 70 on the left hand lane in a quiet bit (it is Sunday after all) and obviously not paying enough attention when I realise the guy in lane 3 is doing 60. So I have to brake and cross 3 lanes to go past him legally. Really safe and environmentally friendly that is.

Then when leaving the motorway so many people pass the old dear in front of me on the left as we go around the roundabout that she nearly missed her turning, cause a hold up, and I ended up going through the light on red as I didn't dare brake with the tailgater just behind me.

Grr. At least I've got the kids out of the house and my wife and I get peace until Easter...

Andy

[Red Devil]

Sorry for that last comment I was actually aiming at the usual granny in a Micra holding up a queue of cars lol

No offence intended!!

None taken mate
I was just wondering where you drew the line age-wise
The wrong answer might have provoked a late night visit from topgun - he nearly choked on his Horlicks when he saw your post...

[Lauren]

Oh, Lauren you are so endearing I think we should start a campaign for proper spelling and grammar. Wat u fink?

,and

mmc. Matt, i'd love to, but really, do you not think it is a total and utter waste of time on IMOC, as surely all will claim they are dyslexic. After all everyone is these days.

[Lauren]

I was on the M25 today and I saw a lovely example of why the current law doesn't work. There I was doing ...err... 70 on the left hand lane in a quiet bit (it is Sunday after all) and obviously not paying enough attention when I realise the guy in lane 3 is doing 60. So I have to brake and cross 3 lanes to go past him legally. Really safe and environmentally friendly that is.

Blimey, you are good! I must admit if somebody is say in lane 3 and i'm in lane one and there is nothing in lane 2, then i won't even bother going up behind them, i'll just undertake straightaway. Sod that basically.

Occassionally to middle laners i take the approach of flashing them when i'm still in lane 1 to let them know they can pull into lane 1. If they don't take any notice then i go to lane two and flash as i approach.

If they still do not move then i overtake in lane 3 and cut straight back to lane 1. It is just idiocy.

The one that really gets me is when you approach a middle laner, flash them so they move to lane 1, then when you've passed they move back out to the middle lane again. Whats that all about?

[johnp]

English grammar is not always easy.
For instance:-
'I bought some apples and oranges.'
Clearly no comma before the 'and'.
However:-
'They shut the road through the woods
Seventy years ago.
Weather and rain have undone it again,
And now you would never know... ' (Rudyard Kipling)

NO comma after'weather'(two nouns linked)...but a comma after'again' because the 'and',after a pause, links two separate phrases.

What do you say now ,Lauren?

[Lauren]

English grammar is not always easy.
For instance:-
'I bought some apples and oranges.'
Clearly no comma before the 'and'.
However:-
'They shut the road through the woods
Seventy years ago.
Weather and rain have undone it again,
And now you would never know... ' (Rudyard Kipling)

NO comma after'weather'(two nouns linked)...but a comma after'again' because the 'and',after a pause, links two separate phrases.

What do you say now ,Lauren?

Its simple, it is context dependent. It wasn't appropriate in the context Matt used it.

[johnp]

I disagree,but then I'm often wrong,as my wife never ceases to remind me.It's late and (comma?) I'm tired--good night,sleep well.

[Antstarr]

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/car_news_ar ... id=2124227

Its not only bad habits but because of all the cars electronicy gadgets.
Young drivers and people with safe cars are shifting up the figures. You should never think too 1 demensional when driving...sometimes it could be the cause of 1 person driving too slowly which causes an accident.

[mattcambs]

Blimey, you are good! I must admit if somebody is say in lane 3 and i'm in lane one and there is nothing in lane 2, then i won't even bother going up behind them, i'll just undertake straightaway. Sod that basically.

Occassionally to middle laners i take the approach of flashing them when i'm still in lane 1 to let them know they can pull into lane 1. If they don't take any notice then i go to lane two and flash as i approach.

If they still do not move then i overtake in lane 3 and cut straight back to lane 1. It is just idiocy.

I do exactly the same and imo you are not undertaking by staying in lane 1.

The one that really gets me is when you approach a middle laner, flash them so they move to lane 1, then when you've passed they move back out to the middle lane again. Whats that all about?

These people leave me totally lost for words! Seen it happen a few times and and just wish that I could somehow ask them why? Why?! Why?!! Why?!!!

Thanks John for trying to stick up for my use of commas. Personally I thought that my use of a comma before 'and' in that particular sentence was entirely inoffensive, and actually put a useful semi-pause in what was a longish sentence.

[jrleech]

The one that really gets me is when you approach a middle laner, flash them so they move to lane 1, then when you've passed they move back out to the middle lane again. Whats that all about?

These people leave me totally lost for words! Seen it happen a few times and and just wish that I could somehow ask them why? Why?! Why?!! Why?!!!

Sometimes the inside lane is worn with big lorry grooves giving some nasty tramlining effects, and in the rain, the grooves can fill with water and give a some fun aquaplaning..... (note my useage of , and )

The main cause of it is probably down to lack of undertanding of what the lanes are for. A large percentage of the population think the left hand lane is the slow lane, the middle lane the fast lane, and the outer lane the overtaking lane, which is probably why a lot of people just sit in 'the fast lane'.

My biggest bug at the moment is people who drive about at dusk (or night, or in rain) with side lights only (or no lights). They seem to have the opinion that because they can see the road, and they've got their lights on, that's OK. Many times, the road has looked clear to overtake, then a tarmac coloured car appears out of nowhere with only 10W of light coming from the car. I'm sure hundreds of accidents are caused by this. Sidelights are for parking... if you need lights on, put the headlights on, they're there so people can see you, just as much as they're there so you can see the road. Don't get me started on sidelights and fogs

If the government would spend a bit of money on advertising to educate drivers it would same many more lives than 'speed cameras' and traps. Lane discipline, use of the cars lights, how to indicate at roundabouts, use of mirrors and instant bans for mobile phone use are good starters.

I'd go for a compulsary IAM level driving test every 5 years, and if you don't pass, you have to drive round with a big 'P' on your car

[Sidewinder]

how to indicate at roundabouts

Aaaaaaaaagh! Damn right! The amount of people who believe you don't need to touch your indicators at all if going straight on at a roundabout drives me mad.

It would help if people actually understood which lane to be in on a roadabout in the first place, too.

[mattcambs]

The one that really gets me is when you approach a middle laner, flash them so they move to lane 1, then when you've passed they move back out to the middle lane again. Whats that all about?

These people leave me totally lost for words! Seen it happen a few times and and just wish that I could somehow ask them why? Why?! Why?!! Why?!!!

Sometimes the inside lane is worn with big lorry grooves giving some nasty tramlining effects, and in the rain, the grooves can fill with water and give a some fun aquaplaning..... (note my useage of , and )

The main cause of it is probably down to lack of undertanding of what the lanes are for. A large percentage of the population think the left hand lane is the slow lane, the middle lane the fast lane, and the outer lane the overtaking lane, which is probably why a lot of people just sit in 'the fast lane'.

My biggest bug at the moment is people who drive about at dusk (or night, or in rain) with side lights only (or no lights). They seem to have the opinion that because they can see the road, and they've got their lights on, that's OK. Many times, the road has looked clear to overtake, then a tarmac coloured car appears out of nowhere with only 10W of light coming from the car. I'm sure hundreds of accidents are caused by this. Sidelights are for parking... if you need lights on, put the headlights on, they're there so people can see you, just as much as they're there so you can see the road. Don't get me started on sidelights and fogs

If the government would spend a bit of money on advertising to educate drivers it would same many more lives than 'speed cameras' and traps. Lane discipline, use of the cars lights, how to indicate at roundabouts, use of mirrors and instant bans for mobile phone use are good starters.

I'd go for a compulsary IAM level driving test every 5 years, and if you don't pass, you have to drive round with a big 'P' on your car

Well said, chap

On my commute up the M11/A14 at the moment the sun can glare really badly from behind. If drivers haven't got their headlights on I can barely see them at all as they approach from behind.

Like you said, people just don't know that they need to make other road users aware of their presence. Another example is people not indicating on roundabouts. They probably think that they only need to indicate if there is someone behind them. But there I am sitting waiting to see if they are going to continue around and low and behold they turn off. I could have gone, but they're in la la land.

Lauren, can I start a sentence with 'But'?