[Mk2] [Turbo] !!! REV2 Turbo Mappable ECU !!!

[TUBBY-DEUCE]

awesome

[PFrazier]

Thanks for the update.

[PFrazier]

Would someone care to convert the data logger video to a file than media player will support? Thanks

[Gersen]

Would someone care to convert the data logger video to a file than media player will support? Thanks

It's in MSVIDEO1!!!!

It's been built into Windows since Win95! It's the oldest clunkiest most compatible codec there is known to man. I used it specifically to be platform neutral as even Quicktime will use it without plugins (apart from the latest version of course).

Please tell me you are extracting the rar file using WinRAR first?

Download linky here if you're not

[PFrazier]

Thanks, I'm not much of a computer expert.

[mrfil13]

Any idea why the knock was sensed at the end and retarded ignition timing?

I guess this is work in progress? the throttle, is that a percentage? Suppose these things will make more sense when the figures are explained.

[Gersen]

Any idea why the knock was sensed at the end and retarded ignition timing?

That's the engine being shut off.

Suppose these things will make more sense when the figures are explained.

Note the road speed, RPM, ignition, load, throttle and pressure all at zero (I suppose someone out there has an engine that idles at 50 rpm? If you do then you own a ship )

It makes more sense if you look at it a bit more in detail - pause the video and look at what all the sensors are saying - it's then fairly intuitive what the engine is upto.

The numbers means :-

Coolant temp (C) is coolant temperature degrees celcius
Air temp (C) is air temperature in degrees celcius
AFM position - higher numbers mean higher resistance means more closed and less air flow - it's a potentiometer.
Injector bandwidth (number) in microseconds [us] and (graph) in milliseconds [ms] - 1 milli second = 1 thousanth of a second = 1000 microseconds - also shown in percent duty cycle (%)
Throttle Position Sensor - I think this is in percent more = more throttle
RPM = engine revolutions per minute
Ignition Advance in degrees of advance
Load point on engine map - number is the actual map site and further right on graph = more load

The pressure gauge is not correctly calibrated yet (although it's pretty close) and you can obviously not have a negative pressure in PSI unless you change the laws of physics but zero equates to a balanced pressure and negative indicates vacuum.

Note that during this brief run I don't actually make any positive boost. I would of but the children in the area unreasonably think they can play football in the park on a Sunday and kick the ball into the road. Their mothers get quite incensed when I mow them down retreiving their ball so I've stopped doing it....for now.

The 5AA5 refers to it running on the normal map - ie the engine is warmed up and there are no problems detected. If it does then it runs on a different map in a different area of memory and this is just to let you know what it's upto.

IDL is idle mode - ie there has been no throttle for a few seconds
TVSV light lit means the ECU is not permitting full boost - this is normal at low throttle settings.
TVIS open = Variable induction system is in active mode ie the mode where higher engine RPM and intake gas speed.

Closed loop lights are when in closed loop mode the mixture is being richened or weakened (W or R)

[Gersen]

Thanks, I'm not much of a computer expert.

Neither am I but I get paid to be

All working now I take it? Give us a shout if you get stuck again.

[mrfil13]

sorry, things like air temp made sense, it was the throttle, thought it would be percent but the bar goes to 200 the AFM didnt make any sense until now.


Might sound daft but how long does the car take to get to the warm temp map? what type of coolant temp is it at when it does?

[Gersen]

sorry, things like air temp made sense, it was the throttle, thought it would be percent but the bar goes to 200 the AFM didnt make any sense until now.

Might sound daft but how long does the car take to get to the warm temp map? what type of coolant temp is it at when it does?

Heh....don't mind me - I'm not feeling well and I'm tired and grouchy

The ECU is exceptionally sophisticated and it's not as simple as coolant temperature being above a certain threshold.

Basically the ECU calculates on multiple parameters if it is safe to move onto the standard map.

Imagine for instance that you have had a single instance of knock caused by a hard acceleration following standing in traffic. A short moment of high intake temperatures caused by the engine being very hot. Knock would happen for an instant.

Compare this to having a tank of crappy fuel. Knock could be going on for for 250 miles before the fuel is replaced.

The ECU would be expected to manage both situations but they are obviously very different.

In essence the ECU shifts to the 'good map' when it's happy that things are fine and continue to be.

From experience, it took an actual drive to the shops and back before the ECU was convinced that everything was okay before it would shift over to this map when it was first put in the car. Prior to this is was receiving its sensor inputs from Jeremy's MR2 Simulator (basically a board with pots for all the inputs).

Because Jeremy had simulated a prelonged period of knock prior to installation in the real car, the ECU was initially being cautious. Ever since this point it has run on the standard map as there has been no contraindications.

I would have to look at the actual code itself to determine exactly what conditions are required for the ECU to switch maps but the primary cause would be detecting knock.

The reason I mentioned coolant temperature is because the ECU won't even try to change from a 'safety' setting until it knows that the car is warmed up and likely to be in optimum condition (think this is around 75/80 C).

Jeremy is far more knowledgable on this subject but the gist is that the standard ECU is incredibly clever and I have grown to respect it immensely for all it's redundancies and fore thought.

It's this sort of stuff that you don't get with a totally aftermarket ECU and it's only having gone into it in more detail that I realise how demanding an environment it is to be able to do 200,000 miles of various conditions and be able to hack it all!

It has been said many times before that an ECU is only as good as the guy that maps it and my hat is off to Mr T.

Jeremy is giving me the best of both worlds - the ability to retain this flexibility and be able to tweak it

He is a genius

[PFrazier]

Got the vid working. Thanks

[mrfil13]

Cheers Gersen.

Don't know if its been said before but if someone remaps the ecu will they be able to get it to see past 12psi of boost rather than just dumping fuel in or is this a limitation of the AFM?

[bobhatton]

Cheers Gersen.

Don't know if its been said before but if someone remaps the ecu will they be able to get it to see past 12psi of boost rather than just dumping fuel in or is this a limitation of the AFM?

From what I understand the new maps will be on the add in board and will be able to go as high as we wish with the boost.

Or am I wrong?

Bob

[bobhatton]

"TVIS open = Variable induction system is in active mode ie the mode where higher engine RPM and intake gas speed."

My understanding was that this being on build for a Rev 2 ECU but its only Rev1 that have the TVIS.

Or am I wrong again?

[ChrisW]

My understanding was that this being on build for a Rev 2 ECU but its only Rev1 that have the TVIS.

Or am I wrong again?

Rev 1 and 2 had TVIS, rev 3+ didn't.

[mrfil13]

tvis was ditched on rev3+

[bobhatton]

My understanding was that this being on build for a Rev 2 ECU but its only Rev1 that have the TVIS.

Or am I wrong again?

Rev 1 and 2 had TVIS, rev 3+ didn't.

Oh I did not know it was on a Rev 2. Thanks for that. That may explan one of the problems I have, not sure my TVIS is working right.

Bob

[Gersen]

Cheers Gersen.

Don't know if its been said before but if someone remaps the ecu will they be able to get it to see past 12psi of boost rather than just dumping fuel in or is this a limitation of the AFM?

Funnily enough I had this discussion with Jeremy about a week ago.

It's a limit of the map.

It is one of my major goals to get rid of this over fueling issue. Basically the car runs off the maps when you get to 10 psi (the original boost limit of the car). When the car goes past this it throws fuel into the mix to ensure that the change of detonation is kept down to a minimum.

Without changing anything, this ECU will remap quite happily up to 15/16psi or so.

At that point the stock MAP sensor runs out of ability.

Running above this 15/16psi limit would require a 3 bar map sensor and a tweak to the numbers in the ECU.

The first mapping session will almost certainly be with the car will be at the 12.5 psi peak boost it's running atm ie the only increase in boost pressure is due to the drop in back pressure thanks to the decat and exhaust I'm running.

It will be a very interesting comparison for the standard MPG, power and torque numbers!

[bobhatton]

Cheers Gersen.

Don't know if its been said before but if someone remaps the ecu will they be able to get it to see past 12psi of boost rather than just dumping fuel in or is this a limitation of the AFM?

Funnily enough I had this discussion with Jeremy about a week ago.

It's a limit of the map.

It is one of my major goals to get rid of this over fueling issue. Basically the car runs off the maps when you get to 10 psi (the original boost limit of the car). When the car goes past this it throws fuel into the mix to ensure that the change of detonation is kept down to a minimum.

Without changing anything, this ECU will remap quite happily up to 15/16psi or so.

At that point the stock MAP sensor runs out of ability.

Running above this 15/16psi limit would require a 3 bar map sensor and a tweak to the numbers in the ECU.

The first mapping session will almost certainly be with the car will be at the 12.5 psi peak boost it's running atm ie the only increase in boost pressure is due to the drop in back pressure thanks to the decat and exhaust I'm running.

It will be a very interesting comparison for the standard MPG, power and torque numbers!

So the map sensor is doing something not just working the boost gauge?

Bob

[Gersen]

Sorry I'm explaining myself very badly!

I shall henceforth refer to the pressure sensor as such and not as a MAP as I seem to be confusing things nicely!

In short the pressure sensor does not just move the boost needle! It has an input to the ECU that monitors it for several reasons.

The reason prevalent in my thinking for mapping the car with more boost was the fuel cut.

This activates when the ECU detects boost levels in excess of around 12.5 psi or so. The input from the sensor appears to hit a ceiling value at around 15/16psi or so. So as it stands now the ECU can reset the fuel cut to as high as this value or remove it entirely. The later isn't a great idea IMHO so you would have to tweak the values in the ECU or have a sensor that can measure higher pressures [eg a 3 bar sensor]. (I'm not sure exactly where the stock sensor runs out of ability btw just that the ECU has a stock limit of around 15/16 psi before it runs out of numbers and would need a tweak).

On the Rev 2 the load site is determined by engine rpm and AFM position only!

The overfueling is caused by the settings in main fuel correction map for higher load. These can be changed using the mapping GUI.

At engine loads above a certain point (that just happens to correspond to the 10psi mark) the main fueling correction table is being rather liberal with Shells finest.

Apologies for sounding like I was suggesting that the engine measures load via a MAP as this is certainly not the case!

I have a video of the tuning GUI in action and will post it shortly.

I go now to resign my position from the Campaign for Clear English