Tim Bill and IMOC-UK

[Leon.]

Surely the first step would be to form a limited company to remove any personal liability from the committee.

Nik

Good point well made there...

Unfortunately it costs a fair amount of money, and time to set up.

Actually its not that bad, about £150. Its more the cr@p that goes along with it like having to submit accounts every year along with other boring documents which adds up. Defo not worth the hassle.

The whole, 'set up a limited company and be free of any responsibility' doesn't work anymore - they look more closely at why companies have failed and that the Director(s) did everything in their powers to prevent liquidation. If they didn't they can face prosecution. I guess however it would probably still be a good get out claus in this kind of situation.

Rich mate, I think if you'd been on IMOC as much as me over the last 2 years you'd be able to form your own opinions of how Tim operated on this club forum. I've also spoken to many affiliates in person in general conversation so am not completely without facts. I echo Frank's reply above, except that it was 4 formal warnings

[CosmosblueMR2]

Mad isn't it, Xxxx gets banned for life for telling a few lies and someone who threatens to take down the whole of IMOC is back on as if nothing has happened... oh but he's said sorry so we should move on

some of his "strikes" (Xxxx's) were for actual threatening behaviour against another member - but lets not go there

as a member you have 3 strikes - if you coose to use them all up, good on you - it's your choice - you know what you are doing.

Unless you are thick, at the count of 2 you would be a little more carefull

[anna]

Ahh - the CBA's have set in again.

If anyone wishes to discuss why I left, please feel free to come and have a chat at JAE.

But I will not stand for people making out like i'm guilty of something, or any of the committee for that matter.

Tim has done what he has done. He's made his bed, and he needs to lie in it. But to me the ends would never have justified the means. He obviously thought they did. s'up to him. but he gets to live with the consequences

[nailmonkey]

The entire legal side of things, you have made it look like Tim wanted to bring the club down when he was just acting on the fact that you broke your own rules when removing his trader status.

What would you have the committee do? Call Tims bluff and risk losing personal assets, not to mention the cost of defending any action?

Have you actually read some of the posts in this thread, just look above at Leeroy's and skinthespin's posts for example? Yes if you lock the thread it becomes a giant conspiracy...but isnt that for the best for everyone? We can move on and forget about it all?

Leeroy and skinthespin have expressed that they are happy that Tim was banned/has left. They are well within their rights to do this as long as their comments are not libelous/defamatory.

As for Committee members leaving because of this whole thing, oh the drama indeed! More like a sense of guilt and 'get out whilst they can' if this ever went further.

Did you not read the bit that mention that action would be taken against the committee as a group of individuals? Why should they have to risk their personal assets, when all they are trying to do is run a club for the benift of it's members?

What threat? What did you all have to worry about unless you were all in the wrong and proven guilty.

Tim would NEVER have brought the club down and people should stop saying that he would have! Do you really think after all of this thats what Tim would have done, after the numerous comments from him saying that all he wanted to do was return as a normal member to give advice etc.

Everyone who wants him off the forum again should be ashamed!

Tim has his supporters on this club, people who can see through all of this 'he was going bring the club to its knees' rubbish.

You started this thread and I have read it, the Committee has acted in a professional manner all the way through and I'm happy you have done so but everything is once again being manipulated and twisted by members on the club.

Yes, the committee was wrong by not just removing Tims affiliate status and this was rectified when tim brought it to their attention.

How can you know that Tim would not have attempted to close the club? Would you risk it if it was your house/car/assets on the line?

If members want Tim removed from the forum, they have a right to their view.

Nik

[nailmonkey]

It's not really a grey area, ISP will always take a site down in the case of illegal activity or libel (at least ones hosted in the UK, Germany, Belgium, etc) See Godfrey v. Demon Internet Limited

That is true - but the reason I don't think it's a grey area is because this particular case hasn't been tested in a court of law yet, so you don't know if it's actually illegal or not.

True, but 99% of ISPs wouldn't want the hassle and wouldn't risk it, especially for such a small site.

[Speedy]

It's not really a grey area, ISP will always take a site down in the case of illegal activity or libel (at least ones hosted in the UK, Germany, Belgium, etc) See Godfrey v. Demon Internet Limited

That is true - but the reason I don't think it's a grey area is because this particular case hasn't been tested in a court of law yet, so you don't know if it's actually illegal or not.

True, but 99% of ISPs wouldn't want the hassle and wouldn't risk it, especially for such a small site.

Hey, who you calling a small site..

I'd complain at them first for their slightly dodgy technical support and packet loss from certain networks.. bah.

[RichLee]

Ask Tim about the threat. We have chosen not to reveal the nature of what Tim said to the committee at the moment. As Malcolm has said prior, we have chosen not to reveal it at the moment because we would prefer not to, unless Tim is happy with us doing that, which up to this moment he has not been.

Anything posted up on the forum anyway can be altered in some way and nobody could prove it in either case if you can see where im coming from.

The way I still see it is that it should have been left for discussion between the people involved off the forum and not left open for discussion on the public forum.

Certain members now seem to hold a personal grudge against Tim, the Committee let him come back as a regular member because you obviously came to an agreement that you could all live with and are happy with.

All of this hate from members is all coming from the ludicrous thought that the club was going to be shut down.

You have to ask yourselves if that is the main goal of man who's trying to setup his own business and wishes to gain the trust of other members like he has done for many years? Closing the club would cripple his business and destroy everything he has built up with no hope of return! If you know Tim you will know that his business it pretty much his life and its the LAST thing he would ever want.

[nailmonkey]

Hey, who you calling a small site..

I'd complain at them first for their slightly dodgy technical support and packet loss from certain networks.. bah.

Small, but perfectly formed

[Icsunonove]

Nik / Leeroy and others, you have made some excellent points!

I had prepared a great big long post last night and was going to post it but it was a bit like:

I was going to tone it down a bit and post it today, don't need to now.....

[Lauren]

You have to ask yourselves if that is the main goal of man who's trying to setup his own business and wishes to gain the trust of other members like he has done for many years? Closing the club would cripple his business and destroy everything he has built up with no hope of return! If you know Tim you will know that his business it pretty much his life and its the LAST thing he would ever want.

Well quite. But Tim's business practice was not acceptable on the forum. You should remember that IMOC is not here to further Tim's business interests. We are not a support service for affiliates. You also have no idea just how much of the committee and moderators time Tim has taken up due to his inability to follow what are fairly simple and obvious rules.

If you want to operate a business on the forum, then you need to learn to abide by the rules.

[CosmosblueMR2]

If you know Tim you will know that his business it pretty much his life and its the LAST thing he would ever want.

why authorise the sending of the letter then FFS

he must have known the possible repercussions - or at least his Legal Aid should have explained this to him so he could make the educated decision to let them send it or not ..

hmm? hmm ?

[Leon.]

All of this hate from members is all coming from the ludicrous thought that the club was going to be shut down.

For me that's just one of the things. Its more his general personality and desire to wreck everything in his path to become successful that I take a particular dislike to. I'm not talking about hear'say either, I've come to the conclusion over 2 years as a spectator on the club.

I'm sure he comes across differently in person or in a trader/customer relationship but the backbiting is there in bucketloads if you look hard enough.

No hard feelings btw mate, I'd hate to fall out over the guy!

[Leon.]

If you want to operate a business on the forum, then you need to learn to abide by the rules.

And one would hope, act professionally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nailmonkey]

TBH, if a business is that dependant on trade from a forum, they really need to be looking at how they are running their business.

Nik

[RichLee]

No hard feelings btw mate, I'd hate to fall out over the guy!

No hard feelings at all mate

[Icsunonove]

from the ludicrous thought that the club was going to be shut down.

It's not ludicrous at all. The Committee were that worn down by the seemingly endless discussions regarding this, that (certainly from my point of view) I was questioning: Is this all worth it?

My conclusion was no.

The forum could have been pulled voluntarily by the forum owner prior to any escalation of the situation.

[RichLee]

TBH, if a business is that dependant on trade from a forum, they really need to be looking at how they are running their business.

Nik

He's not dependant just on trade from the forum at all but you have to agree that both the MR2OC and IMOC cover a very wide area in terms of the percentage of mr2 owners in the UK and obviously all of this will have some sort of impact on his business.

[RichLee]

from the ludicrous thought that the club was going to be shut down.

It's not ludicrous at all. The Committee were that worn down by the seemingly endless discussions regarding this, that (certainly from my point of view) I was questioning: Is this all worth it?

My conclusion was no.

The forum could have been pulled voluntarily by the forum owner prior to any escalation of the situation.

Actually it would be interesting to know what whould have happend if that scenario actually happend.

Would you have refunded members for membership? Would you have refunded traders? Or would the 'owner' cut and run with the money?

[Lauren]

Actually it would be interesting to know what whould have happend if that scenerio actually happend.

Would you have refunded members for membership? Would you have refunded traders? Or would the 'owner' cut and run with the money?

There is no 'owner'. There are signatories on the bank account (i am one) but its nobody's money to 'run off' with.

[nailmonkey]

He's not dependant just on trade from the forum at all but you have to agree that both the MR2OC and IMOC cover a very wide area in terms of the percentage of mr2 owners in the UK and obviously all of this will have some sort of impact on his business.

They sold 100,000s Mr2s, the combined membership of both IMOC and MR2OC is less than 20,000

If you go to google.co.uk and search for "mr2 specialists", you'll find rogue motorsport in the first 10 results, this is one of the reasons that they are the UKs number one mr2 specialist.

All of this may have an impact on the business, people will make up their own minds. Personally I'd be more concerned that the business involved doesn't have any contact details, not even a telephone number on their website.

Nik