[Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

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Stretchermunkey
Posts: 177
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Location: Liverpool

fleeced?

Post by Stretchermunkey »

I've tried to ring the seller again for the past couple of days, no joy getting in through again.
So - seller Peter Giddens, Sbits.
The car belonged to a friend of his.
peter was due to do all the work to get the car into tip top condition.
I understand Ollie's comments, but I thought I was buying off a trusted person, I also no that fixing cars is never a straight forward as it first seems and was prepared for the car to take a little extra time.
But I guess in this cynical world I should trust no one.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of communication, and failure to keep to any deadlines. I have tried to be patient and reasonable but I have spent days travelling the 100+ mile to Barnsley, lost money taking time off work. I missed out on a driving holiday to Europe with friends as my car is FUBAR. I've also had to buy a cheap car to use in the meantime, and it's costing me £30 a month to store the Turbo
To make matters worst is the fact that I sold a perfectly good N/A to fund the turbo.
So Peter please feel free to put your side across, as I seem to be getting no further forward.
Steve
-:[KM]:-
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by -:[KM]:- »

-:[KM]:- wrote:Could I ask what "incorrect fitting of oil can" is? A new one for me!!


Is this why the engine went pop...? :-k

Also, did you buy off Pete as HIS car.. or his mate? Whose name is/was on the V5 as keeper?
Spittinflames
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Spittinflames »

Whats this incorrect fitting of oil can?

3k for a rev1 is very expensive but it depends what its had done to it.... I mean take a look at Earls old car. Did it have a lot done to it or was it standard?

I have to agree with Ollie in some respects, You handed over the cash so at the time you must of been happy with the car, The seller has no idea if the clutch is going to pop or the car is going to drop its oil all of a sudden.

I assume you took the car for a run before handing over any money, gave it a good look over etc.... Nobody held you to ransom to buy the car did they?

You also say the paint was bad and some dash lights were out..... Again you would of been able to see this before buying the car then either asked for it to be fixed before handing money over or walk away.

It's bad for you mate and i really feel for you, Theres no excuse for Peter not keeping in contact with you but you also need to step back and ask yourself who you should be pointing the finger at.
-:[KM]:-
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by -:[KM]:- »

Ahem...

Could it be this one over 6 month ago?

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... ht=#641614

http://www.megaboost.co.uk/sold.html

Apologies if it isn't....
Spittinflames
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Spittinflames »

That looks tidy :thumleft:
JeffD
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by JeffD »

If you look in the trader feedback on here or Shamed section of MR2OC you will see that peter/SBits crops up regularly.

Kept one of my cars for over 2 months without even starting the job with was suposed to take 3 or 4 days, had the cheek to give me a bill for £500 for work I'd not asked to be done, secretly recorded myself and my wife then threatened to sue me! And this is after doing shoddy dangerous work which nearly caused an accident.

Use a bolt instead opf a cotter pin on your caliper - great way to seize your caliper and put you into a skid :-)
Image

But overpriced droplinks for £70 which fail withing weeks because they have a major design fault not being covered at the back :-)
Image

He also had BenG's car for over 9 months and then is helping the new owner sue him - what a wierd way to reat customers?!

Had someone else called GreyWings car for a long time too and it got damaged whilst parked on that wasteground he stores customers cars on,

I could go on but getting cramp in my fingers! LOL

Should of been thrown off this forum a long time ago if you ask me.
Morth666

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Morth666 »

Sounds like an ar$e :evil:
Quigonjay
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Quigonjay »

planted1 wrote:Theirs allways two sides to every story,


indeed
Peter Gidden
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Peter Gidden »

quigonjay wrote:
planted1 wrote:Theirs allways two sides to every story,


indeed


And i will will reply later this evening when i am home.
ryan
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by ryan »

I cant understand why so many problems occur with engine transplants/ major engine work with MR2s. I know the 'new' engine is 'old', but why the problems? I know Gaz off OC had issues?
When my piston cracked at 49k miles, my local garage took 5 weeks to get it back on the road (2 week delay in pistons from Japan/Belgium), but I got the car back and had one fault with it; the 20p washer at the top of the radiator was leaking slightly. No issues resulting in engine removal at all though (I over 60k miles in that car after the work), and they centainly arent MR2 or even Jap specialists! :?
Peter Gidden
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Peter Gidden »

Stretchermunkey wrote:Hi Guys
Bought a Rev 1 turbo last year for £3000,
was still being fixed up and was due to be finished within 30 days.
paid deposit etc, 30 days came and went, 4 months late I eventually took delivery of car. Still some bits and bobs to be done. 1 day later exhaust starts blowing. 3 weeks later the car deposits all the oil onto the road, this was due to incorrect fitting of oil can. couple of weeks later the clutch master cylinder goes, then couple of weeks later the engine starts knocking and the whole car grinds to a halt, (? seized engine). Its now been off the road since end sept, I have been constantly promised that the car will be towed and they will have a look, still waiting
This was bought off a reputable trader.


What makes you think you've been fleeced?

The car had been well looked after by it's previous owners - Michael Canny and Andy Conroy. Both spent whatever necessary to keep the car maintained. It was sold by us on behalf of Andy Conroy who had no time to advertise, test drive etc. A folder full of receipts and bills accompanied the vehicle.

We fitted a fully reconditioned CT20 turbo, supplied a brand new MOT, and retained £500 from the proceeds to supply and fit a set of ATS Racing CV joints which ATS were out of stock of for some months.

You did not like the feel of the stage 3 SPEC clutch, so we changed it out for a stock clutch. Why would we do that FOC? It was your choice. The invoice for the clutch change is still outstanding.

There was a small list of outstanding items which we agreed would be fitted/rectified at a later date.

The oil issue was an error on the part of my member of staff. He fitted a Rev3 elbow which interferes with the upper position of the Rev1/2 oil filter. The consequence was for the engine to drop it's oil at the filter housing although this didn't happen for a week or so after delivery, and we drove the car for at least 100 (including delivery to your home) after fitment.

On informing us of the problem, we immediately authorised you to have the car repaired at any local garage of your choice. What more could we do?

Clutch slave cylinder. These things happen.

Big ends gone. You called me and told me what happened. This is how the conversation went:

Me: "How much oil was in the sump."
You: "None."
Me: "Any engine leaks?"
You: "No."
Me: "When did you last checked oil."
You: "Never. Didn't know i had to."

So, your chosen repairer were the last company to fill the car with oil. You as the owner have never checked the oil.

Tyre pressures, oil level, coolant level, washer fluid are routine checks that any owner carries out on a regular basis. Plus no one knows how much oil was put in the engine by your chosen repairer.

So how can i be held responsible when i've not been anywhere near the car????

As for the delay in cars being repaired, i have now stopped offering free long term parking. Historically, we have accepted vehicles when they have gone wrong. However, this simply results in the car being in our possession way longer than need be, due to work load/lead times.

So to eliminate complaints of that type, we are now having cars delivered/collected when we are ready for them.
Martin F
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Martin F »

Peter Gidden - SBITS wrote:
Stretchermunkey wrote:Hi Guys
Bought a Rev 1 turbo last year for £3000,
was still being fixed up and was due to be finished within 30 days.
paid deposit etc, 30 days came and went, 4 months late I eventually took delivery of car. Still some bits and bobs to be done. 1 day later exhaust starts blowing. 3 weeks later the car deposits all the oil onto the road, this was due to incorrect fitting of oil can. couple of weeks later the clutch master cylinder goes, then couple of weeks later the engine starts knocking and the whole car grinds to a halt, (? seized engine). Its now been off the road since end sept, I have been constantly promised that the car will be towed and they will have a look, still waiting
This was bought off a reputable trader.


What makes you think you've been fleeced?

The car had been well looked after by it's previous owners - Michael Canny and Andy Conroy. Both spent whatever necessary to keep the car maintained. It was sold by us on behalf of Andy Conroy who had no time to advertise, test drive etc. A folder full of receipts and bills accompanied the vehicle.

We fitted a fully reconditioned CT20 turbo, supplied a brand new MOT, and retained £500 from the proceeds to supply and fit a set of ATS Racing CV joints which ATS were out of stock of for some months.

You did not like the feel of the stage 3 SPEC clutch, so we changed it out for a stock clutch. Why would we do that FOC? It was your choice. The invoice for the clutch change is still outstanding.

There was a small list of outstanding items which we agreed would be fitted/rectified at a later date.

The oil issue was an error on the part of my member of staff. He fitted a Rev3 elbow which interferes with the upper position of the Rev1/2 oil filter. The consequence was for the engine to drop it's oil at the filter housing although this didn't happen for a week or so after delivery, and we drove the car for at least 100 (including delivery to your home) after fitment.

On informing us of the problem, we immediately authorised you to have the car repaired at any local garage of your choice. What more could we do?

Clutch slave cylinder. These things happen.

Big ends gone. You called me and told me what happened. This is how the conversation went:

Me: "How much oil was in the sump."
You: "None."
Me: "Any engine leaks?"
You: "No."
Me: "When did you last checked oil."
You: "Never. Didn't know i had to."

So, your chosen repairer were the last company to fill the car with oil. You as the owner have never checked the oil.

Tyre pressures, oil level, coolant level, washer fluid are routine checks that any owner carries out on a regular basis. Plus no one knows how much oil was put in the engine by your chosen repairer.

So how can i be held responsible when i've not been anywhere near the car????

As for the delay in cars being repaired, i have now stopped offering free long term parking. Historically, we have accepted vehicles when they have gone wrong. However, this simply results in the car being in our possession way longer than need be, due to work load/lead times.

So to eliminate complaints of that type, we are now having cars delivered/collected when we are ready for them.



there are two sides to a story...3k for a rev 1 is a lot but peter has gone out of his way to put his side forward....if your going to spend this money on a rev 1 then it is sensible to do your homework and get the car checked out, on the other hand though it's not always wise to sell on someone Else's behalf because this can happen...out of interest though...was all the 3k given to the owner or did the owner get his desired amount with peter adding to the sale price for profit... :-k

no offence, just curious :-k
Martin F
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Martin F »

mrtee wrote:
Peter Gidden - SBITS wrote:
Stretchermunkey wrote:Hi Guys
Bought a Rev 1 turbo last year for £3000,
was still being fixed up and was due to be finished within 30 days.
paid deposit etc, 30 days came and went, 4 months late I eventually took delivery of car. Still some bits and bobs to be done. 1 day later exhaust starts blowing. 3 weeks later the car deposits all the oil onto the road, this was due to incorrect fitting of oil can. couple of weeks later the clutch master cylinder goes, then couple of weeks later the engine starts knocking and the whole car grinds to a halt, (? seized engine). Its now been off the road since end sept, I have been constantly promised that the car will be towed and they will have a look, still waiting
This was bought off a reputable trader.


What makes you think you've been fleeced?

The car had been well looked after by it's previous owners - Michael Canny and Andy Conroy. Both spent whatever necessary to keep the car maintained. It was sold by us on behalf of Andy Conroy who had no time to advertise, test drive etc. A folder full of receipts and bills accompanied the vehicle.

We fitted a fully reconditioned CT20 turbo, supplied a brand new MOT, and retained £500 from the proceeds to supply and fit a set of ATS Racing CV joints which ATS were out of stock of for some months.

You did not like the feel of the stage 3 SPEC clutch, so we changed it out for a stock clutch. Why would we do that FOC? It was your choice. The invoice for the clutch change is still outstanding.

There was a small list of outstanding items which we agreed would be fitted/rectified at a later date.

The oil issue was an error on the part of my member of staff. He fitted a Rev3 elbow which interferes with the upper position of the Rev1/2 oil filter. The consequence was for the engine to drop it's oil at the filter housing although this didn't happen for a week or so after delivery, and we drove the car for at least 100 (including delivery to your home) after fitment.

On informing us of the problem, we immediately authorised you to have the car repaired at any local garage of your choice. What more could we do?

Clutch slave cylinder. These things happen.

Big ends gone. You called me and told me what happened. This is how the conversation went:

Me: "How much oil was in the sump."
You: "None."
Me: "Any engine leaks?"
You: "No."
Me: "When did you last checked oil."
You: "Never. Didn't know i had to."

So, your chosen repairer were the last company to fill the car with oil. You as the owner have never checked the oil.

Tyre pressures, oil level, coolant level, washer fluid are routine checks that any owner carries out on a regular basis. Plus no one knows how much oil was put in the engine by your chosen repairer.

So how can i be held responsible when i've not been anywhere near the car????

As for the delay in cars being repaired, i have now stopped offering free long term parking. Historically, we have accepted vehicles when they have gone wrong. However, this simply results in the car being in our possession way longer than need be, due to work load/lead times.

So to eliminate complaints of that type, we are now having cars delivered/collected when we are ready for them.



there are two sides to a story...3k for a rev 1 is a lot but peter has gone out of his way to put his side forward....if your going to spend this money on a rev 1 then it is sensible to do your homework and get the car checked out, on the other hand though it's not always wise to sell on someone Else's behalf because this can happen...out of interest though...was all the 3k given to the owner or did the owner get his desired amount with peter adding to the sale price for profit... :-k

no offence, just curious :-k



and also, was there not some kind of warranty given with the car and why the hold up's with rectifying the problems....unless oil starvation caused it due to the new owner not realising the need to check...no leaks though so where did the oil go.... :-k


discuss...
Peter Gidden
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Peter Gidden »

mrtee wrote:
there are two sides to a story...3k for a rev 1 is a lot but peter has gone out of his way to put his side forward....if your going to spend this money on a rev 1 then it is sensible to do your homework and get the car checked out, on the other hand though it's not always wise to sell on someone Else's behalf because this can happen...out of interest though...was all the 3k given to the owner or did the owner get his desired amount with peter adding to the sale price for profit... :-k

no offence, just curious :-k


Fair points you put, so to answer:

Car had 800 mile old 17" rims and tyres, recon. CT20B, EBC, mint JDM aftermarket exhaust etc. and loads of history, so expensive to some but not to others.

The owner, Andy Conroy, was a long term customer. He had a bit of an issue with HMC&E, which is why the car was sold. We carried out all the work at cost, with no labour charges whatsoever. The buyer has a copy of the detailed, itemised invoice. So to answer your question, we received ONLY the monies to supply and fit ATS CV joints. Andy received the rest.

Both parties received each others contact details, with sale price etc shown. So total transparency was assured.

Agreed, having car checked out pre-purchase is good idea, however, this car had two well known previous owners, and 1" thick file of history. In this case, any number of checks would not have revealed the ensuing problems.

As with 99.999% of 17 year old cars, there was no warranty. The agreement was that any "bits and pieces" would be sorted, which is where the short list came from.

As for the oil, i guess we'll never know. The previous history shows no high oil consumption. So did the owner nominated garage fill it correctly? Who knows. Had the owner checked the oil even just once, then we'd have more info. A good lesson in routine checks.
Charged
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Charged »

Two sides to every story eh??!!
If you can't see the angle, you're in trouble.
Stretchermunkey
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:07 pm
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fleeced?

Post by Stretchermunkey »

Mid April last year whilst Peter was fitting a Poly bush kit to my N/a, I happened to mention that I wanted to try and upgrade to a turbo, This is when peter told me about this car he was working on, It had been bought with a view to building into a monster, but unfortunately the prev owner had some issues and the car had to go.
The car at this time was looking quite sorry for itself, but obviously had potential. Peter informed me that within 3 weeks he would have the spot on.
The car was to be fully fixed up and running like the pocket rocket she once was. Smashing I thought. I was more than happy to pay without haggling the £3000 peter wanted, as he had promised to do a good job, and I figured better to pay slightly over the odds for a well sorted car.
I arranged to sell my N/A to the father in law, who at 55 was having a late mid life crisis and really wanted a red sports car (lol)
Over the next 3-4 months the delivery date was constantly put back, despite numerous visits to Peter (150+ miles each time). Not only was this inconvenient for me, but also for my father in law who was waiting for his new car from me. On the final visit I was due to deliver my car to Hull and pick up my new turbo from Barnsley. So I dropped off my car and got the train to Barnsley. When I arrived the car was still not ready!
I now had no car.
Peter Kindly lent me his (for which I was grateful)
with a view to getting my car sorted and having in delivered asap.
Within a week Peter delivers the car, still some work to be done but at least it ran.
Jobs to be done
- Repaint drivers door
- Sort out dash electrics
- Sort out EBC, as not boosting properly
- Fit 2nd Pillar gauge
- Fix holes behind seats where speakers were
- Fit and get Stereo working
- Replace cv joint
I didn't even mention the cracked windscreen and badly scratched glass in the drivers door, or the tatty leather seats which were meant to have been treated to tidy them up
Bear in mind 4 months earlier I had been promised a fully working car.
The Cv joint was on order and delay was not down to Peter but everything else should have been sorted before delivery.
I was informed that the clutch was possibly on the way out, and if there was a problem it would be replaced. Turns out the clutch was a 4 paddle helix, and I found this very unfriendly to use, I have never driven a car with this type of clutch so I don't know if the clutch was faulty or whether they are all like that? This was changed, a b1tch of a job, and credit to peter, he worked until early hours fitting the new one.
Got home at 5 in the morning, and there an invoice in my email for clutch and fitting.....
Few days later clutch master cylinder went, probably just one of those things, a bit like having to get all 20 wheel nuts cut off as the key snapped the first time I tried to take the wheel off.
With regard to the car dumping its oil, The garage I took the car to asked me which cowboy had fitted the oil filter as it had been jammed up against the turbo so badly that it took them over a hour to cut the old filter off.

Then few weeks later the car grinds to a halt on the motorway at 7am after doing a night shift, Seems there is very little oil left in the car????
What the problem is I don't know yet as I have been waiting months to have the car loaded over to Barnsley
So as of this moment I'm not in a position to place blame, although the conversation with peter where I confess to not knowing that I had to check my oil is a little strange, I'm no mechanic, but come on....
It's not like it was even my first 2.
What it boils down to is, I was promised a lovely rev1, which should give me very little grief. And for this I was to pay a very healthy 3K
What I have actually had is, 9 months of expense, frustration and disappointment. I'm left with a car that does not run, and has no hope of running soon.
My only crime was paying a good price to a reputable affiliate.
Club Tropicana

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Club Tropicana »

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but it never ceases to amaze me how much people expect from ancient, old cars. Any rev1 is an old scrapyard-dodging dog by now, and is on borrowed time - you simply cant expect to hammer up and and down motorways all day long and expect it to be reliable. If my rev3 turbo that i bought (privately) blew up the day after, it would of been a bummer, but i brought it on the proviso it had no warranty and it was sold as seen. I know it could go pop at any time being 12 years old - I'd never dream of taking it abroad.

If you want peace of mind and reliability, you get your wallet out and you buy a new(er) car. If you buy old cars, you take your chances, it really is that simple IMO.
Stretchermunkey
Posts: 177
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fleeced?

Post by Stretchermunkey »

Club Tropicana, I agree to some extent with what you are saying, but in this case the car was not bought sold as seen, it was bought on the understanding that it was to be a fully restored car (within reason).
If I'd paid £1000 for a rev 1 off some chump on fleabay, then your right I would have no comeback. This was bought in good faith off an affiliate.
Much of the issue is not with the car breaking down constantly, xxxx happens, it is with the lack of communication and the constant broken promises without so much an apology.
I believe Peter is an excellent mechanic, who is very knowledgeable about cars, MR2's especially. But his time management skills are awful, causing rushed last minute jobs where mistakes are bound to be made. He seems more interested in giving out helpful advice over the phone than working on the car he is being payed to fix.
Club Tropicana

Re: fleeced?

Post by Club Tropicana »

Stretchermunkey wrote: it was bought on the understanding that it was to be a fully restored car (within reason).


Unless this was comprehensively defined, (i.e. bearing in mind EVERY SINGLE part on a 17 year old car is liable to failure) i'm not sure what 'fully restored' means...
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Scott Barton
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Been Fleeced?

Post by Scott Barton »

From this statement alone i would be asking questions of the garage you took the car to have a look at the oil filter.
:-k
With regard to the car dumping its oil, The garage I took the car to asked me which cowboy had fitted the oil filter as it had been jammed up against the turbo so badly that it took them over a hour to cut the old filter off.

Then few weeks later the car grinds to a halt on the motorway at 7am after doing a night shift, Seems there is very little oil left in the car????


Oil does not evaporate. You must of either had a serious leak somewhere or the correct amount of oil was never put back in the car after they changed the oil filter.
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