Overtaking on the left - illegal or not?

[jrleech]

Being a pedant I'd have said that overtaking is the process of getting in front of the vehicle in front, and undertaking would be the process of pulling out, reducing speed and slotting in behind the vehicle behind you.

That would certainly make a difference to traffic flow

A useful manouver for the often underrated game, 'motorway hide and seek'...

[jmachling]

PMSL

That's a great idea! A fiver to the first person who sucessfully organises the first 'Great IMOC M25 MR2 Hide and Seek Contest'.

[jrleech]

At last, a good use for HGV's in the middle lane!!

[steve b]

passing slower moving traffic on the left is not, I believe.

Therefore, if the outside lane is crawling along between 40 and 60, as it often can, driving in the middle or inside lane at 70 should be legal I think, as long as it wasn't your intention to overtake.

Any coppers on here to confirm or correct that?

Thats how I understand it.

[mattcambs]

Contributing to IMOC without actually owning an MR2. Now that's dedication! You aren't the only one I'm sure. Perhaps you could get together and form your own branch in the meantime - the IMOAC (International MR2 Almost Owners Club)

I hope you find a good one. Might be better to try to find one now though - prices tend to be lower in the winter.

Thank you. I've already been to see Tom Solan, but I've got to get my wedding and honeymoon over this month! Then I'll off up to see Tom again. Hope you all don't mind me posting - I drive a 98 Civic at the mo

In reference to the crossing of hands when steering, I wasn't really referring to keeping both hands at "quarter to three" as a racing driver would. I meant what most people do when making a tight turn - rather than passing the wheel through the hands as we were taught.

I totally agree that one of the main reasons for bad driving is the obvious total lack of respect and territorial nature of drivers.

[Andy Champ]

No-one else has quoted it so I will:

139: Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should

* only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

Highway Code Rule 139

Andy

[LimeyMk1]

* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

I think that should be updated. These days motorway traffic queues do 90mph.

[jmachling]

* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

I suppose it all depends on your interpretation of 'slowly'

[peterc]

going to work doing 50 outside lane of 3. long line of cars in front everybody keeping safe distance up ahead (raining). to my left large lorry same distance ahead as car in front of me.
enter the idiot come up my backside flashes .why do i want to move over ? where can he go ? this kind of thing happens alot i see it and really it makes drivers mad. anyway to continue driver behind accelerates into middle lane raising his finger as he draws level.
Now the fun bit. he obviously is now going to try and squeeze into the space in front of me.big mistake. no im not going to accelerate i dont have time to. you see there is something more dangerous than a wound up driver at 7am on a cold rainy day going to work..its a speed camera.
yes at that second when he raised his finger the long line of brake lights started coming on and at the second he raised his finger trying to accelerate into the gap in front of me the lorrys lights came on. needless to say he didnt know the road . saw his face when he looked ahead pure horror.

[Lauren]

I must admit i undertake quite a lot on motorways. Like others have said if i'm in lane 1 and i encounter a lane 2 hogger i'm not always inclined to cross two lanes and back again just to get round them.

I don't weave in and out of traffic and will use lane 2/3 if i'm passing cars, but when i arrive behind a car that is just sitting in lane 3 for the sake of it (ie because the next car/truck they are going to overtake is half a mile ahead) then i'll normally flash or indicate right. If they don't take any notice and providing there is ample room i'll undertake them.

I agree with what some others have said and have always maintained that there should be at least say X number of hours tuition on the motorway required for those that have passed their test before they can drive on the motorway.

Some say undertaking is irresponsible and i should have my licence taken away... well if i'm honest i couldn't really care less... i've undertaken for years and no doubt will continue to do so, so long as british people are unable to grasp teh concept of lane discipline. I'm the first to admit that i'm not a particularly patient driver, i just like to get from A to B with the minimum of delay.

Interestingly i very rarely have this problem when driving in Europe unless i encounter other british motorists.

[Sidewinder]

Some say undertaking is irresponsible and i should have my licence taken away...

Well, I guess that was aimed at my comment earlier.

I've noticed that many people are very sloppy on checking their mirrors (let alone a brief turn of the head at the side/rear) when changing lanes. If they're not expecting someone to undertake them, it'll be a hell of a mess of metal, glass, bone and blood on the inside lane.

well if i'm honest i couldn't really care less... i've undertaken for years and no doubt will continue to do so, so long as british people are unable to grasp teh concept of lane discipline.

That's down to your conscience. I agree that people don't seem to understand the basic concept of lane discipline - and it frustrates the hell out of me too - but there's no bloody way I'm going to risk myself, my passenger(s), my car or anyone else just to save another couple of minutes off my journey.

[Red Devil]

* stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

I think that should be updated. These days motorway traffic queues do 90mph.

I suppose it all depends on your interpretation of 'slowly'

Yeah - right on. Try this scenario.

3rd lane full of repmobiles nose to tail at 63 mph after braking for t**t who has just pulled out from lane 2 without indicating.
2nd lane full of lane hoggers at 67 mph catching up slower lane hogger that the aforementioned t**t has suddenly decided to overtake.
Inside lane clear for at least half a mile ahead and there's me in my tubby doing 70 mph as I have been for the last five minutes.

How does that sit with the Highway Code? Am I breaking the law by staying put, continuing at the same pace, and slowly cruising past them all?
If you use the M25 it's a situation you encounter every day. Other than in the peak periods though - then it's mostly 0, or if you're really lucky, 5 mph in every lane

[SB]

The variable speed limit section on the M25 tells you to stay in your lane - thats approving undertaking if you ask me

[Antstarr]

I do it if they dont budge...after flashing and leaning on the right side a little so they can see me.

I agree with Lauren...

What annoys me more is people driving while on their phones...they are always half alert and a huge potential hazard as well as elderly drivers!

[dan9]

I've always maintained that EVERYONE should have to re-take their driving test ever five years.

I like this idea. For most people (including me) it might require one or two "refresher" sessions in order to pass. But it would ensure that your driving meets a set of standards, and that you have recently read the highway code. At the moment, you only take your test to get your license, once you have that you can drive any way you want!

[Red Devil]

What annoys me more is people driving while on their phones...they are always half alert and a huge potential hazard as well as elderly drivers!

For the avoidance of doubt, what's your definition of elderly?

[Lauren]

I've always maintained that EVERYONE should have to re-take their driving test ever five years.

I like this idea. For most people (including me) it might require one or two "refresher" sessions in order to pass. But it would ensure that your driving meets a set of standards, and that you have recently read the highway code. At the moment, you only take your test to get your license, once you have that you can drive any way you want!

Well as we all know the driving test teaches you the very basics of driving and it doesn't do this very well IMO. Standards are i reckon set so low that the purpose is to make everyone drive slowly because they have never been taught the skills necessary to help them avoid accidents etc.. Its a total dumbing down of driving skills.

Add to this the Orwellian goverment that takes choice away from teh driver, so effectively a lack of lane discipline as is apparent in the UK is a great way of ensuring that traffic does not flow smoothly and journey times are as long as possible, thus it becomes a covert means to make driving much more of a PITA than it needs to be.

[HT]

Some say undertaking is irresponsible and i should have my licence taken away...

Well, I guess that was aimed at my comment earlier.

I've noticed that many people are very sloppy on checking their mirrors (let alone a brief turn of the head at the side/rear) when changing lanes. If they're not expecting someone to undertake them, it'll be a hell of a mess of metal, glass, bone and blood on the inside lane.

I'm never sure whether drivers aren't very observant when lane hogging, judging by the aggression typically demonstrated when forced to undertake someone.

[Antstarr]

What annoys me more is people driving while on their phones...they are always half alert and a huge potential hazard as well as elderly drivers!

For the avoidance of doubt, what's your definition of elderly?

Sorry for that last comment I was actually aiming at the usual granny in a Micra holding up a queue of cars lol

No offence intended!!

[mattcambs]

I've always maintained that EVERYONE should have to re-take their driving test ever five years.

I like this idea. For most people (including me) it might require one or two "refresher" sessions in order to pass. But it would ensure that your driving meets a set of standards, and that you have recently read the highway code. At the moment, you only take your test to get your license, once you have that you can drive any way you want!

Well as we all know the driving test teaches you the very basics of driving and it doesn't do this very well IMO. Standards are i reckon set so low that the purpose is to make everyone drive slowly because they have never been taught the skills necessary to help them avoid accidents etc.. Its a total dumbing down of driving skills.

Add to this the Orwellian goverment that takes choice away from teh driver, so effectively a lack of lane discipline as is apparent in the UK is a great way of ensuring that traffic does not flow smoothly and journey times are as long as possible, thus it becomes a covert means to make driving much more of a PITA than it needs to be.

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be taught to a much higher standard, and have to re-take periodically to prove their high driving standards.

I think the key word is is "skill". Driving well (and knowing how to handle a car) is a skill. Not everyone is skilled enough. Just as not evryone is skilled enough to be a professional footballer for example.

The difference is that driving is as much everyone's right as it is to walk down the road. Our economy relies on 99.9% of people being able to pass a driving test, so that they can go out and do their jobs.

Like I said earlier, why is there not more insentive to become a better trained driver? I would definitely pay to try and pass higher level driving tests if I knew that there would be clear and decent % discounts on insurance.

Re: driving whilst holding a phone: I'm shocked at how people have fallen back into old habits. Why aren't the penalties much higher?

M25 has the worst bunch of idiots on it, I'm glad I don't have to use it often.