Is the MR2 Mk2 any good as a trackcar / racecar?

[Daveb]

The other thing you want to think about is that the MK2 is pretty heavy (more of a GT car as spin says) so it will be correspondingly heavy on fuel, tyres, brakes, balljoints and the like. This sends the costs up quite a bit when you add it all up..

Yup very true!

[scottish_mr2]

as far as MR2 MK2's in motorsport go.. i think you'll find they competed in the Japanese GT300 series.. and done pretty well iirc..



they actually won the last 2 seasons of the GT300 championships they competed in:

GT300 1998 SW20 #25 TEAM TAISAN
GT300 1999 SW20 #25 MOMOCORSE Racing Team

1999 was the last year the SW20 competed iirc as they now race ZZW30's.. still a good finish to their careers winning the last 2 series they competed in..

a GT300 MR2 features a 3S-GTE with over 300HP, brembo brakes under
18" wheels, and a custom macpherson suspension system. it uses a bespoke
(custom made) Xtrac 6-speed sequential transmission which costs about three
times what a 93' MKII turbo cost new off the showroom floor.
actually, there are about four teams which have fielded MR2's since
1995 in the japan GT series. they were all a little different, but
basically the same concept and excecution.
simply, the GT300 car is as good as an MR2 can get without
seriously altering the chassis, like the sard MC8R, which uses a 4-litre
twin turbo lexus V8 and carbon fibre body panels.

if you look at this list:

http://www.twinring.jp/result/1999/big/1024_142.html

you'll see that in all results GT500 and GT300 that the MR2 came 17th.. (the highest ranked GT300 car) higher than any other GT300 car including porkers -you'll see a few(911GT2's and a 993RSR in that list)..

so in short they were used in Jap motorsport - Daveb's obvioulsy not a fan of google.. and they can more than keep there own on a track if set up properly..

i think the above is a pretty fair comparison as well as all GT300 cars are strictly regulated and they will all be in the hands of skilled professional drivers.. so probably a fair reflection..

[jonb-]

I can understand why you rave about Caterhams Lauren. They are superb but the ones I were in were race prepared and they were slow on the straight. And that was at Knockhill.

Take them to a big track and they will just go backwards. Aerodynamics of a brick and slow engine.

Plus I want to do the tracks down South and doing a 600 mile round journey in a Caterham isnt something Id look forward to.

I think whether you get to 110 or a 130 down a straight isn't that important in track driving. Its the corners where the fun is had, straights are merely the intervals between them. Get one in a good spec and they aren't that slow. Needs to be a six speed one tbh.

Trailer or hire a caterham. I've driven one on the road and its a little shall we say 'raw'.

Probably the best compromise of a road/track car would be an elise. It may not be the fastest (unless you have a toyota engined one or a honda conversion) but it will be more fun and far more involving to drive than an MR2.

You're right, a caterham might be slightly more fun on track but it comes across as one of those build and forget cars.

The mr2 is an excellent base for learning. I've learnt a fair amount about geometry, a passion of mine through playing with the setup and now i'm studying aerodynamics. Sure, you can apply all that to a lesser scale on a caterham but can you wile away your evenings planning to cut massive holes in the bonnet and frunk to impove airflow? I think not

It's not just about having fun in the car on track for me, i probably 'enjoy' it more off track, when it's sitting on the drive in bits like it so often is. The mr2 community and imoc is a great asset there.

Scottish, the GT MR2 was 4 inches longer and powered by a V8 IIRC. It was no more an mr2 than the BTCC cars are road going cars.

Edit: ^^ I take that back, though i'm sure that's a SARD in the picture...

[scottish_mr2]

I can understand why you rave about Caterhams Lauren. They are superb but the ones I were in were race prepared and they were slow on the straight. And that was at Knockhill.

Take them to a big track and they will just go backwards. Aerodynamics of a brick and slow engine.

Plus I want to do the tracks down South and doing a 600 mile round journey in a Caterham isnt something Id look forward to.

I think whether you get to 110 or a 130 down a straight isn't that important in track driving. Its the corners where the fun is had, straights are merely the intervals between them. Get one in a good spec and they aren't that slow. Needs to be a six speed one tbh.

Trailer or hire a caterham. I've driven one on the road and its a little shall we say 'raw'.

Probably the best compromise of a road/track car would be an elise. It may not be the fastest (unless you have a toyota engined one or a honda conversion) but it will be more fun and far more involving to drive than an MR2.

You're right, a caterham might be slightly more fun on track but it comes across as one of those build and forget cars.

The mr2 is an excellent base for learning. I've learnt a fair amount about geometry, a passion of mine through playing with the setup and now i'm studying aerodynamics. Sure, you can apply all that to a lesser scale on a caterham but can you wile away your evenings planning to cut massive holes in the bonnet and frunk to impove airflow? I think not

It's not just about having fun in the car on track for me, i probably 'enjoy' it more off track, when it's sitting on the drive in bits like it so often is. The mr2 community and imoc is a great asset there.

Scottish, the GT MR2 was 4 inches longer and powered by a V8 IIRC. It was no more an mr2 than the BTCC cars are road going cars.

Edit: ^^ I take that back, though i'm sure that's a SARD in the picture...

nope your getting confused Jonb - the GT300 championships were based on road going chassis.. your thinking about the SARD MC8-R... which was as you;ve stated 4 inches longer and had a bi turbo 4.0 ltr engine..

[jonb-]

Well what body kit has that got on then as i want it

[Daveb]

I had seen that one but not sure how good a comparison it is. Bit like saying your integra type r will be great because the BTCC run the integra but the BTCC car costs 100k?

[scottish_mr2]

I had seen that one but not sure how good a comparison it is. Bit like saying your integra type r will be great because the BTCC run the integra but the BTCC car costs 100k?

do you know what the regs are for the GT300 championship??.. maybe you should have a search on google...

[Daveb]

I will but:

and a custom macpherson suspension system. it uses a bespoke
(custom made) Xtrac 6-speed sequential transmission which costs about three
times what a 93' MKII turbo cost new off the showroom floor.

= Money Money Money and if you chuck enough at any car of course it will be good.

[scottish_mr2]

Well what body kit has that got on then as i want it

it was based on the TRD kit but never released for sale..

[Lauren]

You're right, a caterham might be slightly more fun on track but it comes across as one of those build and forget cars.

The mr2 is an excellent base for learning. I've learnt a fair amount about geometry, a passion of mine through playing with the setup and now i'm studying aerodynamics. Sure, you can apply all that to a lesser scale on a caterham but can you wile away your evenings planning to cut massive holes in the bonnet and frunk to impove airflow? I think not

It's not just about having fun in the car on track for me, i probably 'enjoy' it more off track, when it's sitting on the drive in bits like it so often is. The mr2 community and imoc is a great asset there.

I think to be fair a caterham is a hell of a lot more than 'slightly more fun than an MR2'... i'd say 10times as much fun, honest!

I understand your liking for playing with the car. I guess for me i did that a few years ago with my pretty extensively modded SC. Yeah it was fun improving the car and playing with the geo setups and stuff i appreciate the fun of bearding for sure.

when we get a caterham we'll fettle it ourselves and have fun doing that. There are quite a lot of setup options with the caterham too, so having one doesn't mean you stop bearding, far from it!

I'd love to build up an 86 as well as that would be a real fun project, though it'll have to come after the caterham.

[jonb-]

I had seen that one but not sure how good a comparison it is. Bit like saying your integra type r will be great because the BTCC run the integra but the BTCC car costs 100k?

do you know what the regs are for the GT300 championship??.. maybe you should have a search on google...

From the supergt site

Suspension
Suspension type on the original vehicle may be freely modified and altered. However, if the suspension mounting points on the chassis/monocoque are modified, the suspension must still work normally when the engine has been dismounted. All suspension arms must be made of metallic materials. Spring and shock-absorber are free of restriction.
Adjustment of anti-rollbars can be made mechanically only by the driver, and only when the car is in motion. Anti-rollbar adjustment by any other means is not permitted when the car is in motion.

Brake systems
There are no restrictions on brake materials or mechanisms as long as they comply with the other regulations listed separately.

Fenders:

On each side of the car, fender dimensions may be extended (increased in width) up to 5cm over the width of the original vehicle,

Engine modifications:

Modifications to cylinder capacity are permitted. Supercharging devices are also allowed. Reinforcement of cylinder head and cylinder block is permitted. Crankshaft and connecting rods modifications are unrestricted.

Material restrictions
Composite materials (Including carbon and kevlar):

Permitted in the relevant parts or areas if authorized in the regulations, or used as standard on the original car and original engine.
Titanium and ceramics:

Apart from connecting rods, intake and exhaust valves, valve retainers, heat shields, brake caliper pistons and superchargers, titanium and ceramic materials can be used on specific areas of the car, but only if these materials are used as standard on the original vehicle and engine.

I won't go on!

[scottish_mr2]

I had seen that one but not sure how good a comparison it is. Bit like saying your integra type r will be great because the BTCC run the integra but the BTCC car costs 100k?

do you know what the regs are for the GT300 championship??.. maybe you should have a search on google...

From the supergt site

Suspension
Suspension type on the original vehicle may be freely modified and altered. However, if the suspension mounting points on the chassis/monocoque are modified, the suspension must still work normally when the engine has been dismounted. All suspension arms must be made of metallic materials. Spring and shock-absorber are free of restriction.
Adjustment of anti-rollbars can be made mechanically only by the driver, and only when the car is in motion. Anti-rollbar adjustment by any other means is not permitted when the car is in motion.

Brake systems
There are no restrictions on brake materials or mechanisms as long as they comply with the other regulations listed separately.

Fenders:

On each side of the car, fender dimensions may be extended (increased in width) up to 5cm over the width of the original vehicle,

Engine modifications:

Modifications to cylinder capacity are permitted. Supercharging devices are also allowed. Reinforcement of cylinder head and cylinder block is permitted. Crankshaft and connecting rods modifications are unrestricted.

Material restrictions
Composite materials (Including carbon and kevlar):

Permitted in the relevant parts or areas if authorized in the regulations, or used as standard on the original car and original engine.
Titanium and ceramics:

Apart from connecting rods, intake and exhaust valves, valve retainers, heat shields, brake caliper pistons and superchargers, titanium and ceramic materials can be used on specific areas of the car, but only if these materials are used as standard on the original vehicle and engine.

I won't go on!

i think your still missing a lot of the detail... in other words if the car came like that out of the factory then it's ok.. the GT300 is one of the most tightly regulated series in the world and is closer to the road going car than any other motorsport series for that very reason.. the cars also ran on pump fuel (which was a maximum of 102 RON in Japan)..

[jonb-]

I think to be fair a caterham is a hell of a lot more than 'slightly more fun than an MR2'... i'd say 10times as much fun, honest!

I understand your liking for playing with the car. I guess for me i did that a few years ago with my pretty extensively modded SC. Yeah it was fun improving the car and playing with the geo setups and stuff i appreciate the fun of bearding for sure.

when we get a caterham we'll fettle it ourselves and have fun doing that. There are quite a lot of setup options with the caterham too, so having one doesn't mean you stop bearding, far from it!

I'd love to build up an 86 as well as that would be a real fun project, though it'll have to come after the caterham.

I guess ultimately it comes down to personal definition of fun. Some people might be happy sideways all day, some flying around corners but not on the limit. Me, I get my 'buzz' from being at 10/10th, neat and tidy, feeling the car fight me. Feeling that the back is wandering but that it's ok, because it's how you have to be to be fast. This can be done in nearly any RWD car but is magnified by having the engine is the right place I'm sure i'll love a caterham when i get lucky enough to drive one, but spend 12k so i can only go as fast as my mr2? Na.

[skinthespin]

The mk2 is heavy, I use a set of brake pads every 2 days now, and last day did 7.4mpg, so fuel cost me as much as the trackday.

But like Jon I get fun from messing, and you can take weight out of it (you cant do much in an Elise!). You can tickle a caterhams bits but you cant rediefine them, you can't make huge changes like you can on something thats massively compromised to begin with like an MR2, thats the fun.

I think people like me and Jon like not only going fast but going faster than we should, if that makes sense. You go past a 911 in a Caterham and its like, so what? You don't get the driver coming up to you afterwards and saying "what the hell have you done to that", made even sweeter whan you reply, "not much, and my tyres are s*it".

If you can play to the cars strengths you can make it go very fast.

For me thats more entertaining and fun that going 3 seconds quicker in a Caterham, they really really don't appeal to me, sure id drive one round and say thats a much better car than an MR2, or an exige or GT3 for that matter, but when they go fast its expected, wheres the fun in that?

hang on, maybe thats the competitve male nature coming out.

PS id still sell a kidney (will I get 95k for a kidney?) to have a GT3RS, no matter how fast/slow people expected me to be!

[Lauren]

I guess ultimately it comes down to personal definition of fun. Some people might be happy sideways all day, some flying around corners but not on the limit. Me, I get my 'buzz' from being at 10/10th, neat and tidy, feeling the car fight me. Feeling that the back is wandering but that it's ok, because it's how you have to be to be fast. This can be done in nearly any RWD car but is magnified by having the engine is the right place I'm sure i'll love a caterham when i get lucky enough to drive one, but spend 12k so i can only go as fast as my mr2? Na.

Sure, fair comment. I think the thing is though that with a caterham you can go sideways or you can just go very fast. The beauty is it does both those things very, very well. Wait until you get a go in one (and try to make it a decent specc'd one ie superlight 6speed) and then you'll see what i mean.

[jonb-]

The mk2 is heavy, I use a set of brake pads every 2 days now, and last day did 7.4mpg, so fuel cost me as much as the trackday.

You only use a set of rear pads because your brake balance is so god awful

I predict my carbotech pads should easily last 5 or 6 days on slotted roters and braking is my favourite bit of driving so I'm not the lightest on them!

If we're talking selling bodyparts to buy cars might as well go the whole length and go for a FXX, or (miles) better yet a mc12 corsa. My god i'd do anything for one of those...

Lauren, perhaps if we end up on the same trackday when you've got your caterham you'll take me out and show me the error of my ways, but if i happen to be faster out on track i'm going to have to rub it in a little...

[Daveb]

You only use a set of rear pads because your brake balance is so god awful

Ah now thats interesting if digressing slightly. Do you guys have abs? If not how have you got it setup? T peice for the front and rear with a bias valve?

[jonb-]

You only use a set of rear pads because your brake balance is so god awful

Ah now thats interesting if digressing slightly. Do you guys have abs? If not how have you got it setup? T peice for the front and rear with a bias valve?

He has gt4 4 pot calipers on the front!

[Daveb]

Ah I seeeee!

[Lauren]

Lauren, perhaps if we end up on the same trackday when you've got your caterham you'll take me out and show me the error of my ways, but if i happen to be faster out on track i'm going to have to rub it in a little...

Of course. Though if i'm in a hired caterham it'll top out at 110mph, but i'm sure i'll make it count round the corners.