JAE 2015 Theme

[aussieGT]

So...ultimately I will have to bow to public pressure and the 'minority' views on dressing as Cowboys & more to the point 'Native Americans' (PC) due to my position of Chairman within the club.


Sorry everyone, no 'Native Americans' allowed at JAE this year.

I have a friend who is a native american, is she allowed to go?

I do wonder where it will stop. Would dressing like a ninja or samurai be seen as disrespectful?

[Scott Barton]

So...ultimately I will have to bow to public pressure and the 'minority' views on dressing as Cowboys & more to the point 'Native Americans' (PC) due to my position of Chairman within the club.


Sorry everyone, no 'Native Americans' allowed at JAE this year.

I have a friend who is a native american, is she allowed to go?

I do wonder where it will stop. Would dressing like a ninja or samurai be seen as disrespectful?

I am with you entirely my friend. Political correctiveness gone mad.
As for your friend she would be most welcome, just we as 'non' native Americans just can't dress up as one for fear of insulting someone or a group of people on her behalf. Maybe ask her opinion on the matter and whether the media links above are an over reaction?
It's come to the point where whatever we do in life, sadly someone somewhere will take offence because they have nothing better to do than to complain. It's a sad state of affairs.

[Lauren]

There is no such thing as 'political correctness'. It is a term used by the ignorant to continue to propogate their prejudices with no intention of any consideration given to those they are demonstrating prejudice against.

I was not aware of the implications of wearing a war bonnet. Native Americans were terribly persecuted, killed and wiped out by plague when white settlers reached North America. Little or basically no consideration was given to their culture and identity. So comparing it to dressing up as a vicar, soldier etc, is a nonsense. I am sure Native Americans at least would like people to respect their culture even if it has taken hundreds of years to achieve.

The decision not to have pseudo native Americans at JAE was Scott's decision, not mine, but I fully support that decision. We have to remember that the clubs should act appropriately and this includes the members.

[oukie]

I totally agree with the fact that native americans were and in my opinion still treated as second class citizens, intact whilst I was in tijuana (yes I know it's Mexico) they were the poorest there with children on their knees begging at your feet

But the reasons for this argument about upsetting a population of people doesn't wash,

Because, show me the population of native americans living here, but not even that,

Using the 'logic' shown here none of us should even drive cars, because of the damage done to environments and people's lives around the world,

I'm. Pretty sure sure more people have died over fuel than the entire native american population.

Now I'm not saying we should be belittleing people's culture, merely honoring it by showing our appreciation of it, not pretending it doesn't exist.

This is obviously an important part of history, but hey let's burn books and bow and arrows and pretend it never happened

[wilkie senior]

I do not meant belittle any of the comments made previously, far from it (very valid and factually correct they are)

But, with abuse and bad manners i seem to be on the receiving end of these days almost daily, this is how i feel & almost have to justify myself

As I am white, I am a racist
As I work, I am a heartless capitalist pig
As I drive a car, I don't care about the environment, Capitalist pig, no doubt)
As I am a man, I am a sexist misogynist
Etc, etc

I was called a corporate F***, recently as i held a door open for a woman, (by the woman i held the door open for) she said i was stereotyping her as the "little woman", I was simply exercising some manners, i said, Foxtrot Oscar was the reply! the fact I hold the door open for anyone man, woman, child, other ethnic and sexual origins also catered for, following me.

Getting in the lift, at the office, the two people getting in after me, I politely asked "which floor would you like" all I got was abuse, from two young women, i hesitate to to comment on their origin, etc, as that no doubt would be offensive to some, as i dont flipping know what you are allowed to say.

When Benedict Cumberbatch had to apologise after calling black actors 'coloured' I was told you couldn't say Black not that long since, sorry but what the heck can you say. If i am that out of touch, i may as well go off the edge of a cliff

Our company is owned by an Indian family, (the nicest people you could ever meet) we have, Chinese, Polish, Pakistani, Estonian, a Hong Konger (shes says that phrase is not racist as someone once said it was) Mancunians, Lancastrians, Yorkshireman (me), & Persian, people working in the office.

We all deal with most of the countries of the world, again we manage to communicate and have formed personal friendship with many of the people we have, & do work with

I manage to not offend any of my colleagues, customers & vendors, so I do think I am behaving in the main as a respectful person.

If a refer to am Asian, as an Asian, I am being racist, I cannot say I am English as that makes me a racist, the last stray was developing new product packaging, for a product made here in england / UK, and when setting it up, i put a union jack flag on there, "flying the flag" for english / british /UK manufacturing, someone said "ohh thats risky, it could be seen as supporting the NF, i mean people really!

It does seem you cant avoid offending anyone if you open your mouth

Then people ask me why I am jaded, depressed as s*** and just cannot be bothered even with a car meet anymore, and why the 2 is going / broken

Its almost not worth bothering

Sorry rant over

[oukie]

Wilkie snr, everything you said is totally true, amazingly I have had abuse from a woman who I also held the door open for,

Sad to hear your selling up, but I like to think of mine as a middle finger to those who are trying to control all of our life's.

[wilkie senior]

Hi Matey

Apologies if i was in Victor Meldrew mode, one needs the proverbial size 9 up the backside

Not had the greatest of times lately, and just feeling like dark clouds are back again, never mind

Re the 2, its got the advancing tin worm at the back, and i haven't a workshop anymore to strip cut and weld up.

So JAE will be the old girls swan song, will most likely break her up, as there's a few bits worth more than what id get for her whole, with the work that i feel wants doing.

But I'll be back with a familiar car.

My depressive meanderings apart, I look forward to seeing everyone, wilki the younger looks forward to the JAE weekend, and its good dad, son (best mates) time together, with the rest of you desperate reprobates

regards Brian

[largie009]

this has taken an unfortunate turn. well i think its ridiculous quite frankly but the decision has been made and thats just how it is. my views have already been expressed by most others so i wont bother with my rant! haha.

well i hope this wont damage JAE in anyway and im sure we will still make the effort to make it 10x better than last year none the less!

see you all there!

[wilkie senior]

Indeed chris, got to have a good one to see the old girl off, see you there you crazy fool

[Turbo Dragon]

Can I still wear my horse costume or shall I come as a Wagon Wheel?

[wilkie senior]

Actual Laugh Out Loud

Cheers for getting things back on track, now a wagon wheel .... is that pre reduced size or BIG original?

[Turbo Dragon]

Actual Laugh Out Loud

Cheers for getting things back on track, now a wagon wheel .... is that pre reduced size or BIG original?

Rollin rollin rollin........

[oukie]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels

[aussieGT]

When Benedict Cumberbatch had to apologise after calling black actors 'coloured' I was told you couldn't say Black not that long since, sorry but what the heck can you say. If i am that out of touch, i may as well go off the edge of a cliff

Had to feel sorry for ol Benedict on that one, esp since they have an actors association 'for coloured actors' (or something along those lines) in the USA.

I think the native american people were more upset/annoyed that people were wearing the big headdress business, and that's something to be earned. Thats where they lack of respect thing came into it. If I understood it correctly, more than just dressing as native americans.

[JD]

Hang on. Do I have to be a cowboy alllll weekend?

[oukie]

Just Saturday


You could go as a Mexican bandit, more more victims for me saying that Mexicans might not be aloud either.

[oukie]

Can I still wear my horse costume or shall I come as a Wagon Wheel?

If you come as a horse, you could be a trusty stead.

[Scott Barton]

All.

A U-Turn.

Upon reflection on my earlier announcement about the whole 'Native American' thing, which I still regard as political correctness nonsense, I decided to look into this a bit further and actually made contact with a direct descendant of the Cherokee Indian tribe over in America to get a first hand viewpoint of the debate.

What I got was very interesting and I hope this puts into perspective the viewpoints expressed by the media and those that have no direct relation to any native American culture, theory, history or understanding of their customs and ways.

Below are a number of quotes, that I have used with his permission, that reflect the views of most in native American settlements.

With this is mind I am lifting the silly ban on Native American costumes at this years JAE, with the understanding that in no way was the intention to make a mockery of them, but to remember them as a race of indigenous people that were cruelly ostracised from their own lands by European settlers. I have learnt a lot over the last week about this (no expert by any means) and I am comfortable with my decision to announce my U-turn.

Quotes as follows:

Id rather the Indians being remembered than forgotten. Our children's children should know of these wonderful people with warrior hearts. A lot is lost to political correctness.

Just you bringing it up has sparked feelings for these people. That's the point. Without this topic, they're all forgotten. Because of your costumes, people are googling native Americans for ideas and knowledge. They are learning of our people and showing kids with curious hearts to find their own knowledge of them. The spirit of the Indian lives on.

On asking the question on whether people should dress as an Indian....

I agree totally. Mockery is in the hearts of evil men. People should judge by your heart and intentions. I think you look awesome and I'm glad your kid gets to see it. He already has eyes of wonder for a proud and kind spirited people.

You are trying to make history fun and that's not mockery unless you try to make them look inferior in soul.

The Native Americans are the ones who taught us the idea of freedom. One of those freedoms would be the freedom of expression. Lately, has been forgotten and tried to be controlled or demonized.

I know their beliefs and practices and we really don't care what you do. As long as it doesn't impose on our lives.

We welcome people to learn our beliefs and to wear outfits on reservations. We invite you to dress up and drum there and dance. As long as you respect them you're fine

I think the last quote sums it up. Tourists are invited onto settlements to celebrate their culture, to dress, to drum, and to dance.

I think this is a fair balanced, informed representation and testimony.

If you would like some more info on the subject, check out this link.
It makes for an interesting read.

http://www.manythings.org/voa/history/5.html

[wilkie senior]

[wilki]

Huzzah!!!

that's the way to sort an argument out

Who would of thought common sense can be backed-up with facts

Also genuinely interesting