MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

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JJ
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by JJ »

Is the VSV on the same vacuum circuit?


Turbo VSV - just bleeds to atosphere.. the air channel is that little one comping off the compressor. Since its generally open under normal running conditions, I dont think this is the problem.

Have you had the inlet manifold apart at all ?? throttle body off ??!! possible not bolted up correctly / gaskets passing air ?!

If I remember, the air con VSV - its an idle up channel.. the VSV sits on the rear firewall and has a channel to some metal pipework. One is for the idle control valve to pass around....

If this isn't connected up, then it'll be drawing air in .... through that channel... Tell you what.. take a picture of your engine bay under a good light send it to me by email / post it on here.. and I'll have a nosy.

Turbo manifold - manifold to turbo gasket... normally should reseal... tightened up correctly ??!! They're a pain .. down pipe.. same again, check the bolts / nuts .....

:D
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
JJ
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by JJ »

Blue_5 wrote:Hi JJ,
Ill pop the top off tomorrow and just doubel check theres no corrosion (theres none at the connector end).

Cars running now, fine as you like. I just don't like the thought of the cars new owner having a problem with it.


Wouldnt halm !! Often the connect stays clean.. its the water ingress to the top that causes the problem...

Sold up shop as well ???! :-k
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

Throttle body was completely off when I got the car. I'll get some pics and post them up tomorrow evening.

Cheers buddy :thumleft:
Blue_5
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Essex

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Blue_5 »

JJ wrote:
Blue_5 wrote:Hi JJ,
Ill pop the top off tomorrow and just doubel check theres no corrosion (theres none at the connector end).

Cars running now, fine as you like. I just don't like the thought of the cars new owner having a problem with it.


Wouldnt halm !! Often the connect stays clean.. its the water ingress to the top that causes the problem...

Sold up shop as well ???! :-k


Yep, fancied a change. Will be back in a 'two at some point though.
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

JJ,

Here are some pics of the engine. Sorry some of them are useless :oops:


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And is this pipe the oil dipstick pipe? I reckon it looks like it.
Image
JJ
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by JJ »

Image

Hi Buddy, some good photos there....and a really clean engine.... like the Mikalor clamps .. though its over kill on the intakes.. post turbo fine... !

All the hoses do look connected up, the concerning one is the photo I've attached.... pipe comes from the intake hose, to a metal hose ( see the air con VSV take off ), then goes into a rubber hose, then into a metal bend, back into another rubber hose... which should trail to the idle control valve.... need to check to see if thats connected up at the idle control valve end..... difficult to see in the photo if theres a line going to it after the metal bend...

Remember, adjusting the idle on these engines is that screw that sits on top of the throttle body....

Dipstick tube definitely...... be better if it was fitted !! :wink: Secured at the thermostat housing where the large cold supply comes from the radiator....

Image

Oh... quick safety heads up... theres a large heat shield that fits on the firewall here.. that should be in place.... and obviously one over the turbo ( less essential )... if you notice the rubber petrol filler pipe just in front of the turbocharger... thats a no no.... all this hard work will go up in smoke if you dont address this.... :-s
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

I have got the over the top shield, and I have some other bits of shielding knocking about too, I just want to get the thing idling before I put it all back together.

I will have a look to make sure that pipe is connected, I'm fairly sure it is, but will check again.

The Mikalor clips were just lying around in the box of bits that came with the car, they fitted the pipe, so I used them 8)

Going to get an evening of work done tonight, weather permitting so will post back later.

Cheers

:thumleft:
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

So,

I have un-propped the AFM flap and the car doesn't idle (as expected). I have checked the vacuum pipe to the ISC valve, which is brand new, and connected. I unwound the idle adjust screw quite a bit, and that made no difference either.

I noticed that the vacuum pipe going to the stock boost gauge electronic sender didn't have a diode type thing on it, so put one on, thing is, the one I put on seems to be a two way diode :wink: . Not sure if that would stop the car idling?

When the car is running (on throttle), no boost registers on the stock boost gauge, is this right?

Decided to take the throttle body off to check a few things and to tighten up the FPR, checked the TPS and adjusted so now it is completely within the range of the BGB. Checked the resistance across the ISC valve and it seems out of range (about 30-40 ohms), does this mean it needs replacing?

I couldn't get the ISC valve off the throttle body, so I attached a bit of pipe to the vacuum tube and blew down it when it was 'open' (RSO and +B connected to the battery), the valve was open. When I connected the RSC and +B to the battery, the valve closed, but I could still blow air past it - is that normal?

Tightened the FPR, replaced the throttle body and the car still doesn't idle, with no error codes.

Any ideas?

Oh, and I found and refitted the heat shields, and the dip stick oil tube \:D/
Blue_5
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Essex

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Blue_5 »

Shmed, was the AFM propped fully open or just a little way?
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

Just a little bit. I wedged a rubber hose in, didn't want it to fall out and mash the turbo blades 8-[

When the AFM was propped open, the car just revved, but at least it stayed running. Looking through the BGB, I've found loads to check, but just hoped someone might know the answer. Can't work on the car til Monday now, but be good to hear from anyone who has ideas.
Blue_5
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Essex

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Blue_5 »

Do you mean the revs were high, eg idled at 2000 rpm?

I had a dodgy AFM on my GT4 that would refuse to start the car, but threw up no error codes. I bodged it to run by placing a small piece of rubber tube inside the potetiometer housing so the flap could not close completely. It was a bit Heath Robinson but it got me running while i waited to find a new one.
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

It couldn't find an idle speed with the AFM propped, it just sat there revving itself between 1 & 2000 RPM. Everything sounded ok though in the engine.

Mine starts fine without propping the AFM open, and as long as I am revving it it runs, albeit a bit lumpy when the revs fall below 3500rpm. As soon as I step of the gas, the car justs stops, sometimes with a puff of wispy smoke. It does smell rich around the engine after it has stalled too.

I will get some video if I can.
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

Is there any chance that my stock bov could be fuct? I was reading this thread and although it is full of crap, it does suggest that the car won't idle for a second, which is exactly what is wrong with mine:

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... m+leak+air

My metal pipe that comes from the stock bov back into the intake pipe was sawn in half when I got the car. I have re-joined it with rubber (see pics) - could that be the cause?
JJ
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by JJ »

I noticed that the vacuum pipe going to the stock boost gauge electronic sender didn't have a diode type thing on it, so put one on, thing is, the one I put on seems to be a two way diode . Not sure if that would stop the car idling?


I'm not sure.. the diode fitment is for eliminating fuel cut ??!! I've never used that method so can't help in that department .. always fitted an FCD or programmable ecu.

When the car is running (on throttle), no boost registers on the stock boost gauge, is this right?


Ignore the stock boost gauge, they should have fitted a light.. would have been more effective... Generally, the 1st mark on the gauge is zero... so if you stick your ignition on, wait a few seconds, it should rise to that point... when started, should drop down to the lower mark.

Checked the resistance across the ISC valve and it seems out of range (about 30-40 ohms), does this mean it needs replacing?


Can't see that as the problem.. its still functioning...

the valve closed, but I could still blow air past it - is that normal?


Yes.. the valve also has a base setting so it doesn't completely shut...

"Any ideas? "

Okay.. something thats probably overlooked .. mechanical timing ....

If one of the cams is mechanically out of time, it will cause the problems you're having too..... I'm guessing you've got to throttle it to get it to start and run ?!?!

I think we've saturated the vac lines now .. you're dump valve is taking the air after the afm... so if it was bug9erred, unless pulling in air from atmosphere.. should still run and idle fine.. only when boosting, you'll see the valve not retain the pressure ( if mullered )

See if you can take the top timing cover off, you need to check to see if the mechanical timing is at TDC.

Bottom pulley has a little notch out of it.. this needs to line up with the bottom timing cover with markers on it ( 0,5,10,15 ).. Move the bottom pulley to zero ( 19mm rachet )

The cams are lines up to the back plate... on the 5 star shape cam gear, one will have a dot on it.. this is the mark that needs lining up with the back plate ( thin proud marker ) Get some tippex out and mark the timing gear.. where its supposed to be ( on the timing gear ).. then mark the back plate... you're trying to syncronise the whole lot up !

You're nearly there ! :thumleft:
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

I do indeeed have to throttle it to start and run.

The only other area I can think of that might have a vacuum leak is the fuel injectors (I read another thread where air was passing by the injectors). When I tightened the FPR, I noticed one of the injectors rotates in the rail which I didn't think was right.

I'm not going to be near the car til Monday now so will have a look at timing and stuff then.

Cheers All.
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

Just on an aside, what's the difference between the lambda sensor on rev2 to rev 3? I've got both and fitted the Rev2 one to fit the loom. Could I use the extra pins on the rev3 one to run a fuel mixture gauge or would I need a dedicated sensor? (I don't even know where a fuel mixture gauge should read from :roll: )
JJ
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by JJ »

The only other area I can think of that might have a vacuum leak is the fuel injectors (I read another thread where air was passing by the injectors). When I tightened the FPR, I noticed one of the injectors rotates in the rail which I didn't think was right.


It is possible that it could be the injector area...... the injectors can rotate, they're side feed types, so the fuel runs through the injector opposed to top and spraying at the base.

If the injector rail hasn't been fitted with seals - this is the seal ( o ring )that fits on the injector rail as you bolt it upto the head... air can be drawn in there ! This can cause the problem you're having too ! :-k

A screwed lambda sensor will still allow the engine to run.. just be bad on fuel economy...

The main differences though, the rev 3 has a heater element in it... becomes more effective in the cold starts. You can run an a/f ratio gauge on this - the wiring differences are mainly earths..

Rev 2 relys on earthing out on the downpipe... rev 3 has a seperate signal and earth ( white ) same with the heater, driven by the ecu with an earth ( white )

I'm not going to be near the car til Monday now so will have a look at timing and stuff then.


Dont get too drunk ! :thumleft:
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

The injectors were still seated ion the rail when I got it, and I didn't take them out, but can't guarantee they weren't out before I got them, or that I didn't slightly disturb them putting the rail back in.

I guess I will just have to take it all apart again next week.

Not going drinkin', going to Barcelona, get me a piece of that swine virus!! :pray:
Shmed
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: MK2 Turbo EFI system - testing using BGB

Post by Shmed »

Right, got back late yesterday, so only had tonight to look at things. I have re-checked the TPS resistances, and noticed I may have made an error with my reading of the multimeter, and it may be more like 2K ohms where it should be 0.2-0.8 (I can't find my digi meter so am having to rely on my brain).

The AFM checks out fine on all of the ohm readings and the ECU seems to have power where it is supposed to.

I ran the car again and it sounded rough, and the error code 24 was back (AFM). Reset the code, ran it again, gave it a bit more throttle and now the error code is gone.

Took this video, but while I did I had a horrible thought that the occasional banging noise might be the engine knocking. Having never heard an engine knock, I'm not sure what it sounds like, and the video doesn't really enhance the noise as it sounds in real life.

Anyway, for what it's worth, the video is here:

http://shmedz.com/filez/images/p1010025.MOV

JJ, I haven't had time to check the timing yet, but that will be the next thing to be checked.
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