xxxx and IMOC-UK

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mr2nut123
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by mr2nut123 »

steve b wrote:Well very sad, from almost day 1 on this site Tim's been treated as "the bedroom trader" that irritates other traders on the site with his low prices they can't match because they are "running a proper business",.. I thought that had all blown over and been left in the past indeed some of those traders having parts from Tim etc.

Recently I have noticed a new trader local to Tim that seems to follow Tim around the board goading him, quite frankly i'm not supprised human natures got the better of Tim and he's spoke his mind or whatever concerning them (in private via PM). In my opinion the wrong traders been removed from the board.

No one on the board (except 2 Bar tuning) has offered the level of free technical advice that Tim has.

It is a loss for the board.


lol, too true. No wonder there wasnt a reply to that one :lol:
BenF
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by BenF »

Reading this thread, I thought I'd share some insight from a situation earlier this year.

Back in January, Tim at that time had two formal warnings. There was a situation which resulted in a further formal warning. Luckily for Tim, on checking the dates when the exiting warnings had been given (to see if it would result in a Ban) it turned out that one of the existing warnings had expired a few weeks earlier, so the net affect was Tim remained on two warnings. That was a close call.

We discussed the situation with Tim and how we could ensure that we didn't end up in a similar situation again, risking a ban. As a result, we agreed with Tim that he should give the Committee an early heads up if there were situations or issues here that concerned him which we could intervene in to avoid a situation which could have resulted in a ban.

Since that point, Tim has been in touch with us on a number of occasions and we have been able to resolve a number of issues behind the scenes without problems.

The serious issue and evidence that was brought to us most recently (and it has to be said, by a number of members) was checked by Lauren and myself and when we approached Tim about what we had found he admitted what we had found has been said by himself.

The process by which any formal warning is given requires a careful verification and examination of the evidence, debate and then vote by the Committee, with any warning requiring a majority in favour.

In this case, it was serious enough to warrant a vote on a Formal Warning and the vote did result in an additional warning. As a result of it being the third warning within 12 months, this resulted in an automatic Lifetime ban.

A ban is an exceptional step that we don't take lightly - the rules and system of warnings are there to help steer people away from a Ban. Usually problems here can be delt with initially with a friendly PM or quiet word, to get a formal warning you really need to have clearly crossed a line.

What we are aim to do with our Moderation and Rules is to create a community of MR2 enthusiasts who are able to share their knowledge and experience with one another - and in turn, get more enjoyment from the great cars they own.

This means that at times, there are hard decisions that do need to be made. Indeed, being a Moderator or Committee member does mean that you have to deal with situations that take a lot of time and effort and wouldn't win you any new friends. Believe me, this decision wasn't made lightly, or without lengthy consideration.

Speaking personally (and taking my IMOC hat off) I do see that Tim is a long time member who has contributed advice and keenly priced products over the years - but - to end up in the situation where you have picked up two warnings in a 12 month period does take some doing. We did try to help but in the end it just didn't work work out.
skinthespin
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by skinthespin »

:clap: @ben.

I think the mods do a good job, which is lets face it pretty thankless and time consuming (I couldnt do it), I think they have been more than fair and have given Tim ample opportunities to improve his conduct considering his status (an affiliate) and the time he has spent on this forum.

I know some people are p***ed off (Tim included, he has pm'd me asking me what he's done to upset me) but he has been warned, helped, guided, advised (over the course of a year FFS!) and STILL cannot conduct himself in a way becoming of a professional person trying to run a business via the internet, so what choice did the mods have?

As Luthor said, it is indeed life, hopefully Tim will learn a lesson from it all and be able to conduct himself elsewhere in a more professional manner, thus improving his business.
steve---o

TIM GONE????????????????

Post by steve---o »

:shock:

scandlous.

obviously no-one knows the complete facts other than the involved parties but as far as tim is concerned i think he is one of the best things to ever happen to IMOC so long as i have been a member!!!!

thank god that i managed to get his number before this outrage happened so that i can continue to get advice from him as its always good to have more than one opinion from different tuners.

the boy was always more than willing to help me on more than one occasion and his advice was taken on board to full effect.
MaXsteri

Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by MaXsteri »

Would be nice if you mentioned he was banned somewhere in his profile.

I have been trying to get in touch with him for a while and only found this thread through the search as i thought he might be on holiday ](*,)
BenF
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by BenF »

MaXsteri wrote:Would be nice if you mentioned he was banned somewhere in his profile.

I have been trying to get in touch with him for a while and only found this thread through the search as i thought he might be on holiday ](*,)


That's a good point. I'll amend it now ..
Slarty
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Slarty »

Lauren wrote: we treat people with equality


[Orwell] We are all equal, but some of us are more equal than others [/Orwell]

There are three sides to every story. Yours. Mine. The truth.

It does look a little wiffy to me, tbh, but Tim has held his hands up and admitted he was wrong.

Just a shame he's the only one brave enough to have done so.
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Lauren
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Lauren »

Slarty wrote:
Lauren wrote: we treat people with equality


[Orwell] We are all equal, but some of us are more equal than others [/Orwell]

There are three sides to every story. Yours. Mine. The truth.

It does look a little wiffy to me, tbh, but Tim has held his hands up and admitted he was wrong.

Just a shame he's the only one brave enough to have done so.


Have you been waiting to quote a cliche for a while?

There is nothing whiffy whatsoever about it. I can assure you of that. Ultimately you have your own opinion that seems to be directed at me (i don't know why).

It pains me when people accuse of me acting unfairly because I may make decisions that are not always popular but i do it for the right reasons and with a clear conscience.

I've got tbh i'm tiring pretty quickly of being accused of this, that and everything else, when all i've done is acted fairly and without prejudice. It was definately the right decision to give Tim a formal warning. Tim agrees with that funnily enough.

FWIW i know all about treating people with equality. FTLOG.

I'm away for the weekend and it really can't come soon enough.
2020 GR Yaris - Circuit Pack :lover:
BenF
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by BenF »

Slarty wrote:
Lauren wrote: we treat people with equality


[Orwell]

There are three sides to every story. Yours. Mine. The truth.


No there are not. Short version : Tim broke the rules. He admitted it (to his credit IMO). Got Warning.

These facts are not disputed, even by Tim.

We went a long way with Tim (see my post above) but it didn't work out.
Icsunonove
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Icsunonove »

:? I am absolutely baffled by some of the comments in this thread.....

People are making ill-informed comments without having seen the evidence. :?

It is without doubt the most clear cut case for which I have had to vote on whether a formal warning should be given.

Every single committee member voted in favour of a formal warning.

In fact I would have been absolutely amazed if anyone had voted against issuing a formal warning, it was that clear cut.

The fact that it was Tim's third warning (leading to a ban) is not our problem. Tim was warned and warned and warned about his conduct, but unfortunately he slipped up again and now he is banned. :(
BenF
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by BenF »

Lauren wrote:
It pains me when people accuse of me acting unfairly because I may make decisions that are not always popular but i do it for the right reasons and with a clear conscience.


To be clear : The whole Committee considered and voted on this, and Lauren above I believe is talking about her decision on the vote.

The decision as to give any formal warning is decided by a vote of all Committee members after a debate - in this case it was a Further warning resulting in a Ban.

As a Committee, we all support this decision.
splashnatz
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by splashnatz »

i fear this is going to lead to club organiser bashing if it continues much longer. i thought the fuss would of died down by now, but it hasn't and it seems people are becoming more vocal in both support and objection to the actions taken.

The commitee all feel they've done their job, and done it without prejudice as far as is possible. what more can they do / say ?

Must say though, though most of the commitee members have sounded reasonable , one has stood out from the crowd as seeming argumentative/provocative and condescending.

But it's a very tough job/very tough decision and must have had everybody thinking long and hard on what to do. and yes, the rest of us only know a fraction of what actually went on ... maybe if we knew more of the facts we'd all be reacting differently.
tonigmr2
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by tonigmr2 »

splashnatz wrote:i fear this is going to lead to club organiser bashing if it continues much longer. i thought the fuss would of died down by now, but it hasn't and it seems people are becoming more vocal in both support and objection to the actions taken.



I suppose this is aimed at me? Sorry to be vocal, it's just that I have personally been involved in the past and have tried to help Tim not keep getting warnings. In 'real life' he is a nice guy and as it happens I don't want him banned either. I just know they wouldn't have had any choice. It's sad it has all come to this.
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Rory
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Rory »

How long is Tim banned for? Life? Will details ever be published? It doesnt take a mastermind to work out the basics of why he was banned but it would be nice if it was confirmed by IMOC so members can make an informed decission if they want to do business with Tim offsite.

Rory
My MR2 for sale! Check out the for sale section
Slarty
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Slarty »

Have you been waiting to quote a cliche for a while?


No, not in the slightest. I only stumbled pretty much by accident while bored at work lol (hence the 5am post time). I sat there and read all 9 pages (yes, I was VERY bored at work).

Ultimately you have your own opinion that seems to be directed at me (i don't know why).


My appologies if that's the way that it came across, it was merely that I saw your comment (on page 3 iirc) and it stuck in my mind. Sorry once again.

No there are not. Short version : Tim broke the rules


Did I not state that in my post :?:

All I was saying is that (IMHO of course ;) ) there's always more to things than at first meets the eye.

Now enough of all this malarky, it's a lovely day and I'm off to wash the car :eye:
Amelio
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Amelio »

I understand why this thread has been left open - for the continuing dicscussion for us members, but i must say that the commitee taking it in turns to answer peoples concerns doesn't really seem to be helping out.

It's almost got to the point of an "us and you" scenario which i don't feel is helping matters.

Maybe it is time to close this debate with on final statement from BenF.

The decision's been made, Tim's response has been published, why not lay it to rest.
Speedy
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by Speedy »

We only post in turns, cos we all aren't around all of the time :)

We aren't going to release the details of the reasons for the formal warning (we don't publish any details of other formal warnings), over & above what's already been put in this thread. We had to (reluctantly) do it in order to protect IMOC from potential legal problems.

Tim (to his credit) accepted that he's done something wrong, and has moved on. Bans are for life from IMOC (the reasons for that are already discussed further up somewhere).

Thanks to all of the people who posted supportive comments - it wasn't a decision taken lightly, to everybody else, I just hope that you can see that we were put in the position where we had to do something, and it's a shame it's turned out this way.

Alex
tonigmr2 wrote:Fear me, for I am watching :clown:
THE DUKE
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by THE DUKE »

9 Pages to this saga!

My conclusion is, if people want parts for the mr2 they own, other members might point in Tim's direction others might not.

The fact Tim is not allowed to post on here anymore is really neither here nor there. Folks will still refer owners to him and so on.

Must say tho, this is the most diplomatic, forgiving moderation i have seen within a forum. Other un-named forums just lynch folks for no good reason.

Back to the party everyone \:D/
2Crooky
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by 2Crooky »

To make it simple......

Can we not just think about what we are doing here??????

This is a bunch of great people coming together over the love of MR2's on an open forum. People voicing their opinions is bound to happen! After all 70% of conversation is argument [-(

A group of enthusiasts writing messages on a computer to each other is not exactly a serious affair.......and yet a PERMANENT BAN!!!!!!!!! for Tim for voicing his opinion and....ok.....b1tching about other companies :-k

If it were just another IMOC member disclosing said information to another....then nothing furthur would be said! Just because he is an affiliate with a tarnished record he has been targetted!!!!

I hope to see this harsh treatment lifted....but if it continues then it should be given to all those on the affiliate forum! Can anyone honestly tell me that other affiliates on here do not PM members slagging off other companies products! Its only because we don't report them......Yet just because its Tim he has been unfairly dismissed!

Where are your hearts people!!!! This is freindly conversation on the internet and arguments will always occur. Stop treating this like a bl00dy American court case where they destroy someones livelyhood on something so petty :evil:

I hope all that grassed Tim up feel some sort of remorse as i am no doubt feeling unneccessary anger towards you for acting in such a stern manner.


Alex
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Re: xxxx and IMOC-UK

Post by raptor95GTS »

a huge amount of reading that's made my eyes dry up. :shock:
Ok rules are rules and Tim obviously broke them and has admitted it so can folks stop bashing the bods that run this site.

The flip side of this is should affliates be allowed to advertise if their products are found to be 'less than advertised' - ie sold as kits but on trying to fit the beggar it turns out they don't fit and other parts need bought or making to get the kit fitted?

Slander is a bad thing and open fighting on the forum aint too clever either but folks selling stuff that breaches the Sale of Goods Act should be banned too. Just a thought
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