I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

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skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

Sorry for not getting back to this thread sooner but I've had so much on lately I haven't had a chance to continue testing until now.

Right, I'm just back from a quick run after removing the larger tube from the bov and blocking up the hole with some duct tape. I don't think the tape did the job as I could hear it making noises coming off boost. I did notice the boost seemed to rise quicker than usual, alot quicker...unless I'm just tripping :-k I'm not sure if I noticed a power difference though. It felt quite quick but definately not how it should feel.

I'll have to devise a better way of blocking up the hole and try again.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by PW@Woodsport »

or.....if its easier,try extending the pipe you are trying to block right into the cabin if you have some suitable hose,and take it up the road,there should be no air rushing out of the pipe when under boost,if there is then the bov's knackered or the VTV could be faulty....try that if its an easier test for you.
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skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

Thanks mate! :) It would be easier for me to just block it off than to find some pipe that would fit. To be clear, am I to block off the metal part that the hosing clamps onto? I'm thinking of finding a rubber ball that I could jam in and tape up. Will this not cause problems if the air has nowhere to go upon letting off boost? 8-[
PW@Woodsport
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by PW@Woodsport »

yeah just shove a rubber ball in the rubber hose at the bov....its just for testing,1 or 2 runs wont do any harm,dont snap the throttle shut and it'll be less violent on the turbo.
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skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

Thanks Paul :)

Ok, here's the latest update (we're almost there now!! \:D/ )

I spent about 12 hours yesterday fitting my new turbo with Glenn (pccalloutservice) and after taking out the old ct20 we could see that the problem was a loose flapping wastegate. I reckon we can fix this by bending the actuator arm so that it keeps the wastegate shut more securly. In fact I think it's actually only the arm that is at fault.

Anyway, this new hybrid (mr2lovers old turbo) is a beauty! Very tight, snug and clean with no play and the uprated actuator seems to be spot on.

After fitting this we went for a test run. 0.6bar was the max we could reach. So, we took out the apexi avcr boost controller and ran a tube from the turbo straight into the actuator but still only got 0.6bar. Infact...to be more precise it was hitting exactly 0.58 every time and holding it to redline.

So we tried fitting the manual boost controller and after a bit of adjusting we were hitting the desired 1.1 bar with lots of nice power! :D

It was still down on power form the original setup from back when it worked and so we though we should test for any probs with the standard bov. We blocked off the pipe and fitted an aftermarket dump valve. This actually gave an increase in power which was ost noticible in 3rd gear. So the bov must have bee leaking a little bit as Paul Woods suspected.

Any ideas on why the avcr AND the straight through tube method both restrict boost to 0.58?

So....we're almost there, but we're not getting just as much power as it should have. There's also a flat spot at about 0.8bar and then it boosts on up to 1.1

I'm very pleased so far but I know something else other than the turbo and the bov is now holding the car back from full power. Just now I checked for error codes and code 25 has come back. I think this is lean error. It can't be the fuel pressure reg as I fitted a new one and if anything, i'm probably slightly overfueling. The exhaust pops now and again and the engine bay smells of petrol, if that helps diagnose better.

Not far to go now!!!
Stefen
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by Stefen »

Any ideas on why the avcr AND the straight through tube method both restrict boost to 0.58?


If you didn't plug the VCV back in when using the straight though method (and left it plugged), the boost in the actuator may be sufficient at 0.58 to override the spring in the actuator and trigger the wastegate.

AVCR - Perhaps it is faulty or not setup correctly? :-k
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

I'm not sire if any of you are still following this thread :lol: but.....

I went for a spin tonight and suddenly for the first time in many months...I had full power!! Actually it was quicker than ever before!! It scared the crap out of me when it hit 1.1 bar instead of the usual "hmm..is that 1.1? feels like 0.1" that i've been getting for so long.

It's now giving me power intermittantly. Sometimes its there and sometimes it's totally gone. I checked for codes and the 25 lean error is gone. :? :-k Oh....and no more petrol smell from the engine bay.

I haven't changed anything whatsoever. This has just happened by itself for some reason.

If I could just get the power to be there all the time I could colse this thread once and for all and stop pestering you all!!
jonb-
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by jonb- »

Having nearly bought that car i'm still following!

It sounds a little random now, i suggest hitting everything you can with a hammer. Works for me.
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

jonb- wrote:Having nearly bought that car i'm still following!

It sounds a little random now, i suggest hitting everything you can with a hammer. Works for me.


Hahaha I did that to the powervalve in one of my old bikes and it worked....for a few weeks. Then the engine blew up at 60 on the motorway. Rear wheel locking up whilst beside a scania lorry is not fun :|

This has to be something so simple now!! I can't believe I haven't found this last problem yet!
Stefen
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by Stefen »

My first thought is that something got moved, or disturbed in some what when the new turbo went on...
Or else you sorted the problem with the turbo and there is still some other problem lurking somewhere.

Have you tried that pipe that bypasses the IC and goes straight from the turbo to the inlet manifold?
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

No I never got my hands on one. glenn offered to make me one but I know he's up to his eyes at the moment. I'm going for anothe spin now! when it works it's so addictive :mrgreen:
matt_mr2t
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by matt_mr2t »

What dump valve have you put on there?
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

I don't know. It's purple and I got it cheap off a mate. I could find out for you? Does it make much difference what brand when it's rev 3 converted engine? I know they cause problems on rev1/2s.
FreeFall
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by FreeFall »

skytek wrote:Does it make much difference what brand when it's rev 3 converted engine?


It will if it leaks :wink:
matt_mr2t
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by matt_mr2t »

As with free fall. When they leak the cars are horrible to drive. Although you should hear and feel quite clearly if it's leaking.
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

I have noticed a connection between the times it doesnt boost properly and what i can hear. The whoosh as the turbo spools up sounds different whenever it's down on power. I had thought for a moment air was leaking from somewhere causing the slightly different noise, and I checked all my hoses and clamps and all seemd fine. I am confused about one thing.... This dump valve slots into the standard bov in place of the tube that's meant to be there to recirc air back into the intake.....is this normal? as all aftermarket bovs this simple?
FreeFall
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by FreeFall »

This one?

Image

It does sound like a leak somewhere - I thought you had gone through the whole BoV testing thing further back in the thread though... :-k

The following link has instructons on installing the Greddy - it may help you work out whether yours is hooked up right.

http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/GReddyBOVInstall.html

Nick
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

It's not that one no. Infact, it's nowhere near as complex as that one. It's just a small cylinder about 60mm long by 35mm diameter which we pushed into where the recirc hose goes and clamped it up.

Ok, I am 98% sure my problem is a fueling one.

tonight I got the petrol smell again and as expected my car lost it's power and became sluggish again. I sat for 30 mins eating a kfc, then reset the ecu. Took her for a drive and boooost! loads of power in second, infact the strongest it has been so far, a good amount in 3rd about 70% of the time, and pulling well in 4th about 50% of the time. And of course no petrol smell.

So here's my theory as to what's happening. Please someone correct me if this is not how the mr2 works:

The car runs lean, so the sensors detect this after a while and the ecu dumps loads of fuel into the system, running rich to protect the engine, hence the fuel smell. At the same time the knock sensor detects knock due to the mix being lean, and retards timing, causing the big lack of power. So this would explain why the smell comes about at the same time as the lack of power. It would also kinda explain why resetting the ecu temporarily gives power again.

Is that total BS or am I onto something? Experts please put me right.

Cheers guys. I have to say to those few of you that are still checking into this thread and trying to help you are really top blokes! I hate this thread as much as everyone else does and I just want to get my car working and be doen with all this. I've missed out on an entire summer of enjoyable driving and I just want to remember why I love mr2s so much.

Thanks again.
jonb-
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by jonb- »

Did he upgrade to rev3 injectors when the conversion was done?
skytek
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Re: I've tried everything.....and now it's dead (CONCLUSION)

Post by skytek »

Here's a copy paste of the things I was told were done to the car (excluding exteriors details etc):

1993 MR2 GT-S Turbo (Revision 2)

93K Miles (Engine on 2500 miles)
L Reg
Black
Half Leather/Suede Interior
Rev 3 Rear Light Conversion
Recent FULL Engine Rebuild (See Engine Section)
MOT till Jan 07
TAX till June 06
Large amount of Service History and receipts since coming into the UK
Power Steering
A/C (Climate Control) – Would benefit from refill before summer

MODIFICATIONS

Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
HKS Hiper Single Exit Exhuast
Decat (CAT NOT needed for MOT)
Carbon Enclosed Air Filter
Full Rev 3 Conversion
CT20B Turbo and Actuator from Rev 4 MR2 Turbo
Greddy Side mounted Intercooler


The car came into the Country in 1999, including myself it has had 3 owners. I have owned the car since August 2004, the reason for sale is due to needing more seats and boot space. The oil and filter were last change a week ago with fully synthetic oil and a genuine Toyota Filter.

Engine and Mechanical

This is where the car comes into its own, not long after buying the car I discovered the car has a warped head gasket, this had allowed coolant to make its way to the bottom end. I took the car to a MR2 Specialist who had previously worked on my car (James at 3S Service Centre) and was advised that either a new engine or rebuild would be required.

My thinking was a FULLY rebuilt engine would be MUCH better in the long run, then another engine from a car from which we could not truly verify, therefore the decision was made to fully rebuild my engine from the ground up.

This process involved the following, the engine was removed from the car and bottom end separated from the head, the head was sent of to be skimmed whilst the bottom end was outsourced and built from scratch with new everything, as it was when it left the factory completely with Original Toyota parts.

Whilst this was away the head was completely stripped down and rebuilt with new valve stem seals, piston rings etc. Again, ONLY with Toyota OEM parts.

Once both were complete the decision was made to port and polish the head, also the flywheel was sent off and lightened professionally. In addition to this a new Uprated XTD Stage 3 6 Puck clutch was sourced and ready to be fitted with new cover plate and thrust bearing (Toyota OEM). Also a CT20B turbocharger from a Low mileage Rev 4 MR2 Turbo was sourced ready to be fitted with all the other parts.

An up rated Metal head gasket was fitted upon rebuild of the engine, along with a FULL Toyota Gasket set, which incorporates pretty much every single gasket and seal on the 3S-GTE lump, everything was bolted back together and several coolant flushes and oil changes performed before the key was even turned.

Upon receiving the car back I followed a strict 1000 mile run in period, this entailed driving for the first 500 miles under 3K RPM and with NO BOOST, after 500 miles Revs were raised to 700rpm with no boost and low load on the engine. After 850 miles the revs were taken to 5krpm with no boost, along the way every 250 miles the oil was changed and new oil filter fitted. Upon completion of 1000 miles a oil change was performed with fully Synthetic Suchs oil and a new filter installed. After being given the once over by James at 3S Service Centre boost was introduced gently along with more load for 250 miles.

The engine is now on around 2500 miles and is extremely strong and healthy, in about 1500 miles it has not lost a drop of oil or coolant, these are checked religiously each week without fail.

Since the rebuild I have had a the Greddy Intercooler fitted to aid cooling, also an Apexi AVC-R electronic boost controller was installed and setup with 2 Boost settings 1.0 bar and 1.1 bar), also a full rev 3 Conversion was performed to remove the AFM and allow it to run a MAP sensor, thus removing a restriction and being a far more efficient and advanced method of adjusting ignition and fueling.

Service Items wise over the past year the car has had New Drilled and Grooved Discs and Greenstuff Pads on the front, New Rear pads, Distributor cap and Rotor Arm, New Handbrake cables, new NGK Spark plugs and various other bits.

NO EXPENSE has been spared with this car.
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