MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

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Lauren
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

Slarty wrote:
I think a certain Dave Walker might possibly dissagree with you there.

He was tuning the k back in the early days of S1 Elises/MGF's, but hey, it's a long time ago now, google his name and see what comes up.

However, I do know that mearly in stating this instance, I am instantly wrong because Lauren is right.


Well i am right in this instance.

However given the choice of a tuned Kseries giving 200bhp and a K20A what would you have?

Its a no brainer. This is why so many have gone for the K20A conversion because they are virtually bullit proof. A 200bhp is not. The problem with the 1.8 k-series is the liners move and thats it IIRC.
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Lauren
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

shibby! wrote:Agree on the Mi16 engines

They were nice engines, and when you put them in the 205, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

They are actually quite high revving engines too! With no fancy xxxx on them.

Nick


they have a beautifully intricate inlet manifold IIRC.
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by stiggy »

Lauren wrote:

Well i am right in this instance.

However given the choice of a tuned Kseries giving 200bhp and a K20A what would you have?

Its a no brainer. This is why so many have gone for the K20A conversion because they are virtually bullit proof. A 200bhp is not. The problem with the 1.8 k-series is the liners move and thats it IIRC.


Depends on the application. If the car was designed for race use, or I had lots of cash to hand to fix it when it broke it'd have to be the K series without question.

For a standard road use car though, there's no doubt there are benefits to the transplant.

Either way, I wouldn't exactly call it a "no brainer". Particularly when the price of the transplant is taken into account. ;)
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by kmb »

EVilDAve³ wrote:A DC2 would absolutely annhilate an MR2, turbo or not, anywhere except a big straight road. And even then you'd be hard pressed to get far away.
When I had a DC2, MR2's were easy pickings on trackdays :thumleft:


Don't I know you lot from somewhere? :lol:
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by eRATic »

kmb wrote:

Don't I know you lot from somewhere? :lol:



so you never got a 350Z then :lol:
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by kmb »

eRATic wrote:
kmb wrote:

Don't I know you lot from somewhere? :lol:



so you never got a 350Z then :lol:


Too expensive buddy :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stuck the S2000 wedge in the bank and get my weekend thrills from an MR2 Tubby... it made more sense :thumleft: :lol:
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

stiggy wrote:
Depends on the application. If the car was designed for race use, or I had lots of cash to hand to fix it when it broke it'd have to be the K series without question.

For a standard road use car though, there's no doubt there are benefits to the transplant.

Either way, I wouldn't exactly call it a "no brainer". Particularly when the price of the transplant is taken into account. ;)


Well i used to work for a trackday company, who were well into their elises and there were many discussions about getting 200bhp from an elise. The K20A fitted the bill perfectly and with the 6speed box that comes with it, you had the perfect match.

I ended up working for BLiNK Motorsport that did the K20A conversions on elises and exiges for trackday customers. It makes a bloody quick car we timed it (uphill on the melbourne loop) at 4.5 secs to 60 and 9.5 to 100mph.

In all honesty its too fast for a road car, i've driven them extensively in the UK and eurotrips. The manner in which it piles on the speed puts you into serious licence losing territory very quickly.

I also know people who have raced K20A engined elises. They prove to be very competitive in Britcar. Also the great thing about the K20A engined cars is that you can thrash them all day everyday and they just keep going. In fact, we used to hire out a K20A engined elise, it was more reliable than the modestly tuned caterham superlights that we also hired.

I don't understand your point about preferring a 200bhp K-series. The VHPD was synominous with engines going boom. Also the 190bhp was a bit of a dream in all honesty. After a few experiences of this people would generally opt for the K20A. Yes it is expensive if it breaks, but the point is, it generally doesn't. Possibly its worth remembering that the K20A puts out 200bhp out of the box whereas the K-series doesn't.

Fair comment about the price of the transplant, it isn't cheap, but then i guess if you are going to be keeping the car for a reasonable period of time, you have to add up how much its going to cost to keep a K-series making similar power in fine fettle.

Remind who you are/what you drive etc and why you are into this thread when you don't seem to post elsewhere. Are you from SELOC per chance?
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by stiggy »

Lauren wrote:
stiggy wrote:
Depends on the application. If the car was designed for race use, or I had lots of cash to hand to fix it when it broke it'd have to be the K series without question.

For a standard road use car though, there's no doubt there are benefits to the transplant.

Either way, I wouldn't exactly call it a "no brainer". Particularly when the price of the transplant is taken into account. ;)


Well i used to work for a trackday company, who were well into their elises and there were many discussions about getting 200bhp from an elise. The K20A fitted the bill perfectly and with the 6speed box that comes with it, you had the perfect match.

I ended up working for BLiNK Motorsport that did the K20A conversions on elises and exiges for trackday customers. It makes a bloody quick car we timed it (uphill on the melbourne loop) at 4.5 secs to 60 and 9.5 to 100mph.

In all honesty its too fast for a road car, i've driven them extensively in the UK and eurotrips. The manner in which it piles on the speed puts you into serious licence losing territory very quickly.

I also know people who have raced K20A engined elises. They prove to be very competitive in Britcar. Also the great thing about the K20A engined cars is that you can thrash them all day everyday and they just keep going. In fact, we used to hire out a K20A engined elise, it was more reliable than the modestly tuned caterham superlights that we also hired.

I don't understand your point about preferring a 200bhp K-series. The VHPD was synominous with engines going boom. Also the 190bhp was a bit of a dream in all honesty. After a few experiences of this people would generally opt for the K20A. Yes it is expensive if it breaks, but the point is, it generally doesn't. Possibly its worth remembering that the K20A puts out 200bhp out of the box whereas the K-series doesn't.

Fair comment about the price of the transplant, it isn't cheap, but then i guess if you are going to be keeping the car for a reasonable period of time, you have to add up how much its going to cost to keep a K-series making similar power in fine fettle.

Remind who you are/what you drive etc and why you are into this thread when you don't seem to post elsewhere. Are you from SELOC per chance?


Dont disagree with anything you've said, but still - A 200bhp K will be quicker than a K20A, atleast for as long as it lasts.

I'm Steve I drive a NA MR2 currently; thinking of either a V6 conversion or a maybe a GT-Four soonish though. I lurk this site regularly, but tend only to post when I have something worth saying. :)

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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

stiggy wrote:
Dont disagree with anything you've said, but still - A 200bhp K will be quicker than a K20A, atleast for as long as it lasts.

I'm Steve I drive a NA MR2 currently; thinking of either a V6 conversion or a maybe a GT-Four soonish though. I lurk this site regularly, but tend only to post when I have something worth saying. :)

What's SELOC?


Okay. Well yes a K-series being lighter would mean that if it produced identical power to a k20A then it would be quicker. Trouble is longetivity is important to most. Add to this that though K20A are not terribly cheap to buy, they are far, far cheaper than a 200bhp K-series.

I only asked if you were from SELOC because i thought you might be trolling.

Just out of interest have you ever been in or driven a K20A engined S1 elise?
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by stiggy »

Lauren wrote:
stiggy wrote:
Dont disagree with anything you've said, but still - A 200bhp K will be quicker than a K20A, atleast for as long as it lasts.

I'm Steve I drive a NA MR2 currently; thinking of either a V6 conversion or a maybe a GT-Four soonish though. I lurk this site regularly, but tend only to post when I have something worth saying. :)

What's SELOC?


Okay. Well yes a K-series being lighter would mean that if it produced identical power to a k20A then it would be quicker. Trouble is longetivity is important to most. Add to this that though K20A are not terribly cheap to buy, they are far, far cheaper than a 200bhp K-series.

I only asked if you were from SELOC because i thought you might be trolling.

Just out of interest have you ever been in or driven a K20A engined S1 elise?


Nope! I've never even driven an Elise at all to be honest with you! :)

Trolling? Nooo, I'm just doing your job - providing balance ;)
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Lauren
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

stiggy wrote:
Nope! I've never even driven an Elise at all to be honest with you! :)

Trolling? Nooo, I'm just doing your job - providing balance ;)


MMC. Okay fair enough.
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by luthor1 »

Just 2p - 6-gears/5-gears, area under the torque curve and rotating mass will heavily affect the performance of 2 cars with different engines that *happen* to both make a peak of 200bhp.

For my money, I'd make a 185bhp flywheel K-Series as per Dave Walkers site based on the VVC engine, make it as light rotating-wise as I could and enjoy excellent reliability.

185bhp, 200bhp it's not going to show 100yards down a straight at a track is it?
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by mark239 »

Lauren wrote:
shibby! wrote:Agree on the Mi16 engines

They were nice engines, and when you put them in the 205, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

They are actually quite high revving engines too! With no fancy xxxx on them.

Nick


they have a beautifully intricate inlet manifold IIRC.


quite a good inlet on them, but it's the exhaust manifold thats of note - 8 into 1
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by gnzyza »

I've raced to teg's on two occasions in my rev3 tubby. I know i wasn't boosting well but we took off from the lights down a dual carriageway and i pulled a nice lead then round a big roundabout and both was on it coz i was maxing in 2nd and down another straight and a few bends and i kept ahead all the way.

It was the earlier ones DC2 i think.
I know they handle well but i know that guy was giving it beans but i reckon i easily kept ahead - the surface was lovely and dry so i was able to push with confidence.

Don't get me wrong its a lovely chassis the DC2, i used to own a prellude and loved it with the 4ws.

But on a dry surface POINT TO POINT i'm confident i'll have the edge over any DC2 in my car.
I also smoked a civic type R on - he pressed it from 1st, i only floored it when i got into second and took him with ease. but then the tubby has got more power and puts it down VERY well.
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Quigonjay »

in one of the best motoring videos, think it was the vtec special one, they pitted a rev5 beams mr2 against a jdm teg dc2 on the track
the dc2 managed to get past eventually but didnt pull away
would have been a different story had they used a turbo mr2
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Slarty »

luthor1 wrote:Just 2p - 6-gears/5-gears, area under the torque curve and rotating mass will heavily affect the performance of 2 cars with different engines that *happen* to both make a peak of 200bhp.

For my money, I'd make a 185bhp flywheel K-Series as per Dave Walkers site based on the VVC engine, make it as light rotating-wise as I could and enjoy excellent reliability.

185bhp, 200bhp it's not going to show 100yards down a straight at a track is it?


Luthor, stop it!! We have been told that we're wrong!!

Lauren wrote:Well i am right in this instance.


See!! I'm wrong, you're wrong, even Dave Walker is wrong. What does he know about engines after all :roll:
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

LOL!

Whilst i fully understand it is possible to make a K-series that produces that sort of power and holds together, the cost to do so in the long-term may be prohibitive.

Though a K20A conversion is expensive due to its inherent reliability as a production compared to a highly tuned and expensive to build K-series, I reckon that the K20A would be a better bet in the long run. This is exactly what i've seen in the trackday market.

That was my argument more than anything. I wasn't saying it wasn't possible to build a highly K without it going pop.
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by luthor1 »

185bhp is 1800 quid plus fitting. not expensive?
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Lauren »

luthor1 wrote:185bhp is 1800 quid plus fitting. not expensive?


for a VHPD lump?
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Re: MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

Post by Gersen »

Slight digression but I thought I would share some information on the differing cornering techniques to be employed by 2'of different types and 'Teg's

Clicky for Vid

The MR2s use a technique called driving wereas the 'teg pilot must carefully aim his door handles at the apex.........

:mrgreen:

And of course Ze Germans were lost and looking for their sunbeds :whistle:

Image
Image

Hehe hadn't looked at these in ages - brought a smile to my face - scuse the quality of the vid - it was originally recorded in Super8 and Dolby Prologic but then rerecorded on a dictaphone ;)
Why thank you - I grew it myself you know
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