Essex RR - the Results !

[paul port]

I don't think it was no. When i stuck my mouth over the resevoir and blew, it would quite happily push what water there was in the system through, but it looked like the hoses in and out of the rad might be round the wrong way so it's going in at the top and out at the bottom (air getting stuck at the top of the rad) and personaly i think the pump is too high in the system so it's really struggling to prime once empty.

You are probably mid way replying to my reply....
But let me just say that so long as the pump is below the reservoir, it will prime.
Just consider what the MR2's engine coolant system is like... EG Fill point, position of the Radiator return hose (to thermostat) and height of water pump.

Water flow... you would want the coolest water to go in at the last stage of the chargecooler (nearest air exit) - to guarantee the coolest charge. If the system is filled slowly, it should be fine... Don't know if the chargecooler setup has a bleed point at the Rad - but considering it never gets pressurised (like the engine coolant) - doubt it is as critical. Saying that, the exit point on the front rad should help air to move out the way.

Paul

[Mark Edwards]

Agreed. My problem with it is, that if Mike is correct and the water goes in at the top of the rad and out of the bottom, then the rad will never fill properly and will almost definately have air trapped in it. It should go in at the bottom and out at the top as obviously the air will rise within the rad and them get pushed through the system.

[Mark Edwards]

Also the pump will only prime if there is enough weight of water being pushed into it, which on this particular set up i find very hard to believe.

[MR2Mania]

On my own car, the water goes in at the bottom of the pre-rad and out of the top and into the pump which is the lowest part of the system. However, the pump is not good at pumping air, so you need to ensure that you've got a solid section of water behind the pump before it can pump effectively. I'd imagine that's probably what's going on in Mike's system too (ie the pump has picked up a pocket of air and is having problems getting rid of it).

[MR2Mania]

Water flow... you would want the coolest water to go in at the last stage of the chargecooler (nearest air exit) - to guarantee the coolest charge.

I agree with this, but it's an interesting point, as Pace's diagrams show that the pre-cooled water enters in at the hot side of the air (ie incoming from turbo) and exits out at the cold end.

Also, looking at the ST205CC, if you were to rig it up so that the cooled water goes in at the throttle body side and exits back to the rad on the turbo side, and then you switched the pump on with the CC cap off, you'll get a face full of water - quite refreshing that, in the summer!

[BenF]

Sounds like it was a good day. Gutted I couldn't make it! I was in Essex, dropping the wife off somewhere, but couldn't get away to come.

Mark, well done. Seems our mapping guru is worth his weight, huh? If only everything went smoothly last mapping session - you'd be registering some eye-raising figures.

BenF, so you managed to get the Mk3 turbocharged then? EXCELLENT results!! =D>

Hey all, big thanks to Frank for arranging the day, and Mike for taking the Photos - top job guys

We should have a really good write up to go onto the site here with pics and video clips in due course - its going to take a little while to get Mike's 35mm films developed and I'll need a few days to sort though the 90 minutes of videos - there's something like 35 different clips - and later this week the first of the clips should be available.

As for Turbo'ing the Roadster - its been a bit of a rollercoaster ride over the last few weeks since the work was done. I'll put together a proper post later this week telling the whole story, but as of my last run today (after I fixed the water leak - I've had air, oil and water leaks in the last week now!) I'm finally happy with the results - 220bhp and 200ft/lbs of torque in 1000kgs.

It feels 'properly' quick now - compairing power to weight against a MK2 Turbo, its roughly equivalent to a 290bhp Mk2 turbo, eg like my old Mk2 Turbo. As the Roadster is lighter, the difference in weight means that it feels less laggy and is more nimble around roads I know well

[Chris \'aka rustboy\' Amm]

didn't make it! totally gutted!

damn looked like a fine RR session i missed too! Ben let us have a copy of the vid please

i got a bit faceless the night before and well changing oil early in the morning and spark plugs when you feel a bit fragil is hard man!

plus i aint got my ignition leads or my diszzy sorted so i may book a session for myself soon once i have fresh oil, plugs, leads and a clean dizzy in there! hell maybe organise a small RR day for me and folks that missed this one.

mike and mark are making pretty good bhp now i see! wow! mike i might have to dare myself to climb into that passenger seat of your's and 'feel the force' as it were

and what about bens beast! should be illegal to turbo a standard looking mk3! think of all the poor chav's that'll be shamed when they try and waste it



sorry i missed it all and with pretty poor excuses, i coulda still made it if i tried but i'd rather do it knowing the car is tip top!!!

catch you all at bluewater (well most of you) probably soon!

[paul port]

Water flow... you would want the coolest water to go in at the last stage of the chargecooler (nearest air exit) - to guarantee the coolest charge.

I agree with this, but it's an interesting point, as Pace's diagrams show that the pre-cooled water enters in at the hot side of the air (ie incoming from turbo) and exits out at the cold end.

You're right... The generic diagram on the pace website does show water in on the hot air side.... Most odd! The only thing Physics has to say about that is that rate of energy transfer is greatest when the gradient is steepest EG very hot to very cold = fast transfer... Warm to slightly less warm = slow.

Trouble is, if the cold water went in on the hot air side, the water temperature at the air exit would be much higher - making the gradient air temp to water temp much smaller.

Paul.

[MR2Mania]

Trouble is, if the cold water went in on the hot air side, the water temperature at the air exit would be much higher - making the gradient air temp to water temp much smaller.

Alternatively, you could always supply cold air to ALL sides (ie the water is at a more stable temperature across the core). That way you've got the biggest temp gradient across the whole core, just as in the MR2 Mania one.

Anyway, I think that's enough hi-jacking - back to the original thread...

[MR2Mania]

Rory, that *is* a very healthy torque figure. =D> What boost are you running?

Incidentally, guys, just one thing to note about comparing peak torque figures. The laggier the turbo you have, the less your peak torque will be at the same given boost. Hence Mark's peak torque is less than Mike's, and also probably why Rory's is high too (I'm guessing that's a standard CT26?).

Another factor that has a similar effect is the exhaust system. A more "restrictive" exhaust (or one that has slightly more back-pressure) will give a higher peak torque but will then drop off, whereas one with less back-pressure will give less peak torque but the torque curve won't drop off as quickly. Also, the peak torque will tend to move over to the right of the RPM range slightly. Someone once explained it as if less back pressure has a tendency to stretch the torque curve out slightly, thus giving a wider but shallower torque curve. That's why I personally think the choice of the exhaust is an interesting one.

[Rory]

Rory, that *is* a very healthy torque figure. =D> What boost are you running?

Im running 15psi on a std ct26. Only mods are the Nur Spec and grainger/fcd. Should be getting a decat soon.

Rory

[paul_h]

Mark, well done. Seems our mapping guru is worth his weight, huh?

and who is this mapping god?

[ryan_s3]

Dino,i've pm you.something you might be interested in.

[Bry]

Fantastic day Great atmosphere and some good figures were got by everyone.A big thanks to Frank for organising it and for Mike for the photography and Ben for filming it =D> also just to mention the guys at Engine advantages who did a great job and were very friendly and professional,they even adjusted my coilover for me as one side was lower than the other and was hitting the rollers

[jimGTS]

Fantastic day Great atmosphere and some good figures were got by everyone.A big thanks to Frank for organising it and for Mike for the photography and Ben for filming it =D> also just to mention the guys at Engine advantages who did a great job and were very friendly and professional,they even adjusted my coilover for me as one side was lower than the other and was hitting the rollers

i got a fair few pics of your car mate at the RR, check out the events section, called More rolling road pics.
dam i hate you! wona swap cars!!???

[MR2Mania]

Mark, well done. Seems our mapping guru is worth his weight, huh?

and who is this mapping god?

I *could* tell you, but I'd have to shoot you and then cut you into little pieces!

Seriously, though, he's just a ol' mate of mine that happens to work for MoTeC and is a DAMN good mapper. You wouldn't be able to get him to do your car though unless you were recommended...

[JJ]

they even adjusted my coilover for me as one side was lower than the other and was hitting the rollers

Too many pies bry !!??

[BenF]

Fantastic day Great atmosphere and some good figures were got by everyone.A big thanks to Frank for organising it and for Mike for the photography and Ben for filming it =D> also just to mention the guys at Engine advantages who did a great job and were very friendly and professional,they even adjusted my coilover for me as one side was lower than the other and was hitting the rollers

Bry, good to meet you - MikeJC should have some nice pictures of your car from the group photos we took at the end of the day.

Your coilovers ... Probably need to take the car to somewhere with some proper corner scales and get them adjusted so the weight is even on each diagonal to get the best out of the handling ..

[Mark Edwards]

Mark, well done. Seems our mapping guru is worth his weight, huh?

and who is this mapping god?

I *could* tell you, but I'd have to shoot you and then cut you into little pieces!

He he. James Bond the engine mapper.

Seriously, though, he's just a ol' mate of mine that happens to work for MoTeC and is a DAMN good mapper. You wouldn't be able to get him to do your car though unless you were recommended...

Hadn't realised that, wow i am priveliged then. Cheers Dino.

[jonno]

Hadn't realised that, wow i am priveliged then. Cheers Dino.

Why do you think I want to use him!.

Interestingly I had a quick chat with Pete at Thor today, he mentioned that the power on MikeJC's car is as much as they are prepared to push the stock internals rather than any other limitation - so once he gets his act together and runs some forged pistons I would expect a significant jump in his power output

When are you two boys going to join us on track anyway? This dyno competition must be getting dull by now surely?