how strong is a 4agze?

[greglebon]

i think 200bhp would be more balanced than the 250bhp plus.

What was it one of the tyre manufacturers says in their ad..?

"Power is nothing without control".....!

[crazybrightman]

i say 200bhp will be enough but more than likely ill be wanting 300bhp next year

[kaiowas]

i think 200bhp would be more balanced than the 250bhp plus.

What was it one of the tyre manufacturers says in their ad..?

"Power is nothing without control".....!

"Control" is that pedal on the right. Just because the power is available doesn't mean you need to use it all. There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough.

[greglebon]

...so we've gone full circle..!

But then we're back to 3SGTE territory: stick one of them in, tune to what you want.......

.....but just control it with your right foot!

[crazybrightman]

ive hopefuly something lined up, looks like ill be turboing sooner rather than later due to the h/g failure. all being well i should know by the end of the month anyhow.

[Lauren]

well after a trackday at donny yesterday i managed to get through about 12litres of water with no apparant leaks and a rad weld didnt help either so looks like the headgasket may have given up. this means i may go for a quick upgrade the gze loom and ecu with gze pistons in my engine would make sense for a reliable 200bhp or just stick a gze lump in but ive a feeling that lots not very cheap right?
also need to sort the suspension out for the wet as i managed 3 spins and sideways on most corners no thanks to downpour after downpour and 2mm tread on my tyres , it did fly in the one dry session though with me even seeing 110mph on the short back straight which is also why i think 200bhp would be more balanced than the 250bhp plus.

200bhp would be plenty for track work in all honesty. Half the reason why i didn't pursue the turbo conversion on my old SC with 182bhp was because it just worked well as it was.

[JMR_AW11]

well after a trackday at donny yesterday i managed to get through about 12litres of water with no apparant leaks and a rad weld didnt help either so looks like the headgasket may have given up. this means i may go for a quick upgrade the gze loom and ecu with gze pistons in my engine would make sense for a reliable 200bhp or just stick a gze lump in but ive a feeling that lots not very cheap right?
also need to sort the suspension out for the wet as i managed 3 spins and sideways on most corners no thanks to downpour after downpour and 2mm tread on my tyres , it did fly in the one dry session though with me even seeing 110mph on the short back straight which is also why i think 200bhp would be more balanced than the 250bhp plus.

IMO if you kept it below 200bhp eg 180bhp+ then the stock AFM ECU will just about cope OK although the ignition timing control still won't be ideal.

At this power level I'd favour the stock AFM ECU over any of the aftermarket cheapo options (the ones without a proper knock sensor)

However, I got the impression you were trying for high boost and 200-250bhp and I really think the stock AFM ECU won't cope very well at that level of boost/power and the aftermarket ECUs will be better suited.

That's why I warned about the limits within the stock ECU code. The 3SGTE ECU (AFM) is similar in that it has limits in the code for the mapping and AFM beyond which the engine management ignores the AFM and runs with the mapping set by the limits. This results in compromised ignition timing control and also loss of control over AFR at high boost levels.

When Ryan tuned my tunable (stock) 3SGTE ECU at Surrey Rolling Road recently we saw it hit the map limits when we raised the boost a bit (CT20b turbo on a rev2)

i.e. we saw the ECU tracking through the maps and it hit the top row of map cells quite easily across 4500-6000rpm on a 280bhp run (NOT rwhp)

It was nudging the AFM limit value in the code at high rpm as well.

Ryan detected quite a bit of det on the stock mapping at high boost and he altered the timing map quite a bit and also the fuel map to optimise performance at high boost. I think he tuned it for 260bhp with no det and better economy.

It would be interesting to see a big pulley + 4AGZE ECU on a rolling road with the ECU diagnostics enabled. This would show everything and would show real time knock detection and ignition timing etc.

I did make a tunable stock ECU for the GZE a couple of years ago but no one ever tested it for me. It's in bits now as I raided it for parts for the 3SGTE prototypes

[crazybrightman]

im not a fan of afm so ill be running map and 14psi and see what i get out of it.
as for the clutch seen a few of these for sale in the usa will th friction plate fit the splines on the mr2 gearbox or does the rwd box have a different spline number/size?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/F1-STAGE ... enameZWDVW

cheers, neil

[cartledge_uk]

It should fit

[billybobbooth]

there is a reason some peole dont go the 3sgte route,

well is the reson for me,

the mr2 mk1 is very prone to rust, yes well looked after and they are fine but also its alot of work to put in then have to remove and put in a new car a 3sgte lump a 4agze or what ever is east to do as the new doner car all you have to remove is the engine not the box or anything,

also if your going to build a high powered engine like anyt engine do it well and it will last cut corners and it will go bang quicker,

im going after about 250bhp with a twin chraged engine i know how to set it up, going after new pistons and pos new conrods, all ballanced and tested to find what they can cope with or talk to twobrutle, they do test all the time,

advantage of a 250 bhp 4agze or hybird 4a engine is the engine mounts are already in place, engines are cheap and can be done on a drive in a few days with no real hard work,

i for 1 would rather spend a 4k bill getting a 4a hybird running right than 4k on a 3sgte convertion to then crash the car or loose the car to rot and have to then get the 3sgte fitted again.

only my opinion which we are all entitled to, best bet for safty is find out what the crank in a 4agze can cope with 200bhp is fin on all stock wether sc or turbo, i beleive 250 you need new ecu something like emanage greddy and new pistions, but have your conrods checked too there must be some somewhere for sale! if you really wanted if you were propared to do some work yourself the engine could be built on the floor and fully rebuild and cleaned for £300 including parts (not including the engine) if your going for custom work get a bear 4agze block the heads are the same just the bottome end thats diffrent and stronger.

[Speedy]

fwiw, RAW use Omex in their higher performance 4A builds, worked ok in our SC as well

[PW@Woodsport]

i for 1 would rather spend a 4k bill getting a 4a hybird running right than 4k on a 3sgte convertion to then crash the car or loose the car to rot and have to then get the 3sgte fitted again.

LOL! so your reason for not fitting a 3s-gte is because you might crash it

There is only one route to big power and a decent level of reliability,thats why there aren't any high power GZE's in the UK,well not in any significant numbers,like more than 2? anyone?

No brainer for people wanting huge power,why spend £3k-£4k to achieve 200-250bhp and you then have an unstable unit,when you can spend the same with the 3sgte swap and 300bhp is easily achieveable AND retain reliability?

This is just my opinion of course.I can see the appeal of the GZE,cracking unit,but i cant see why anyone would want to throw £4k at one?

[crazybrightman]

well if you did spend £4000 on a 4agze i wouldnt expect anything less than 350bhp and as long as it built well, tuned correctly your only worry would be the transmission issues. ok if you spent the same on a 3sgte you'd have 450bhp plus but its all swings and roundabouts really.
a 4agze is going in with a turbo and i shall post the results when i get the engine. hopefully have the clutch, manifold issues and so on sorted so just a case of making bits and bobs up to fit it and make it run. theres no reason it shouldn't be reliable for now either its hardly going to be stressed with 1bar boost.
i recon you could buy a 4agze lump with all running gear and convert to turbo for £2000 so probably not much less than a 3sgte route which would be best if your doing lots of road miles, but as its my track car if anything happens i can just buy another car for 2pence and swap everything over.

[crazybrightman]

ok a little update should be going to view a ae101 4agze engine next week and if alls well i can kick the project into gear!
in the mean time ive been collecting a few bits just hope they fit ok





anyone any recomendations for an in tank fuel pump? there seems loads of cheap rip offs but dont realy want to have it pack up on me or find out it wont fit.
cheers, neil.

[Icsunonove]

Oooh, nice stuff Neil!

anyone any recomendations for an in tank fuel pump? there seems loads of cheap rip offs but dont realy want to have it pack up on me or find out it wont fit.
cheers, neil.

Rouge do an uprated pump:

http://www.roguesystems.co.uk/forms/Product.aspx?ID=416



It requires some modification to the carrier but it's not rocket science. I'll try and find some pictures for you

[Icsunonove]

Standard Mk1 NA fuel pump assembly:



Standard Mk1 NA fuel pump assembly with Rouge uprated pump side by side:



Rouge uprated pump fitted to Mk1 fuel pump carrier:



HTH!

[Pete]

Neil,

I get the impression that your and my project builds have a very similar theme!



Well, either that, or you have been sourcing parts from my shed

[crazybrightman]

cheers top thats a price i can live with plus the mk1 looks one of the simplest pump carriers ive ever seen, beats messing around with the plastic moulded ones any day!

pete your not kidding! what engine are you using for your build? ive got to mill the manifold slightly as the flange is slightly warped but can complain at £96 delivered from the states

[Pete]

pete your not kidding! what engine are you using for your build? ive got to mill the manifold slightly as the flange is slightly warped but can complain at £96 delivered from the states

I'm using a 4AGE for the build. I still need to get around to ordering a number of things such as new pistons and bearings, but i'm looking forward to building it. Probably won't be until the end of the year though yet.

Have you decided on a turbo?

[crazybrightman]

ive got a t3 turbo from an old saab dead cheap, but on ripping it apart the exhaust housing is cracked, and theres excessive end float resulting in the compressor wheel grinding itself down on its housing. never mind theres loads of them about and ill just use it to get the fit right then get another.