Precision vs Gt turbos

[afennell]

Hello,

Knowledge with none standard turbos is limited so I was hoping people could shed some light on Precision vs Gt turbos as im looking at upgrading.

Happy Christmas.

[RyanRs]

Dont have any hard evidence or proof to hand but seems the Precision turbos give better results than the garrets, ie the 6262 spools about 150 rpm slower than the GT3582r but flows quite a bit more air -more like a GT40xx. The 6266 (iirc?) spools the same as the 6262 but makes even more power across the whole rev range. I believe the pte6262/6266 to be like having a GT4088 with GT3582 spool.

GTX are not worth the money.

Another good option is FP HTA line. they use genuine Garrett turbos and modify them with an anti-surge intake housing and billet compressor. This gives faster spool and more airflow. I have a HTA GT3582r and its spool is as fast as a big AR GT3076r. I think the GT3582 flows 50 lbs/min whereas the HTA flows 58 lbs/min with faster spool.

[ashley]

GTX are not worth the money.

How do you figure?

[Peter Gidden]

DoGTX are not worth the money.

You forgot to post the next paragraph. You know, where you put your argument to back up your statement...

[afennell]

im being offered a 5130, they say its a similar spool to the GT28?

[RyanRs]

DoGTX are not worth the money.

You forgot to post the next paragraph. You know, where you put your argument to back up your statement...

Ok. Its down to what i have read mostly off Mr2oc but also off supra/Evo forums whilst looking for alternative options to my HTA. The GTX range, although perform better than the previous GT range, still do not compare to the performance of HTA's PTE's Borg warners etc that are available and yet the GTX are a dam sight more expensive!

[ashley]

DoGTX are not worth the money.

You forgot to post the next paragraph. You know, where you put your argument to back up your statement...

Ok. Its down to what i have read mostly off Mr2oc but also off supra/Evo forums whilst looking for alternative options to my HTA. The GTX range, although perform better than the previous GT range, still do not compare to the performance of HTA's PTE's Borg warners etc that are available and yet the GTX are a dam sight more expensive!

Interesting, when I was researching my next turbo choice I spent ages reading threads on the Evo, Scooby, Supra and MR2 forums. From memory there was fek all on the MR2 forums about the GTX series, the Evo and Scooby boys seemed to have the most data on them, and from what I recall the results indicated the GTX series was up there with the HTAs.

That said I've seen very impressive results for the HTA range, and there is a LOT more data for them as they've been around a lot longer (although frustratingly they won't release compressor charts).

Not sure I would write off the GTX series just yet, not until there is more proven data out there

[RyanRs]

Yes I do think I remember reading that the gtx faired well against the HTA range, iirc producing slightly better results (like 2~3% improvement)however the HTA are not exactly new tech and are considerably cheaper than the Gtx. I swear I also remember reading that when you purchase a GTX you don't get a complete turbo? I think you only get the chara or something?

Borg Warner and PTE seem to be the best bang for buck and are pretty reliable now also. I think if I upgrade from my HTA 3582r I'll go 6266

[ashley]

I'll go 6266

I was tempted, but was really not happy at not being able to water cool it as well, especially with the full race mani burying the turbo down behind the block, and no frontal airflow through the engine bay. With your top mount mani it may be less of an issue though.

Do you think you will change??

[RyanRs]

Yea i can see that being an issue for you. The full race manifolds look well constructed but i think the shape needs to be a bit different -ie location of the turbo flange. I remember seeing Ants 35r on a full race ram horn design manifold and his IC hot pipe practically touched one of the manifold runners!

Tbh from what i can remember the PTE 6262 + 6266 are neither water cooled nor oil lubricated!?! i think they have a dry lube bearing and air cooling fins on the Chara?

I am going to wait until i have the new 2.2 5s block built up, tilton clutch on and mapped + running good for once then decide whether to change turbo.

[MR2 Rich]

A bit off topic but why are you going for a 5S block, Ryan?

[ashley]

Tbh from what i can remember the PTE 6262 + 6266 are neither water cooled nor oil lubricated!?! i think they have a dry lube bearing and air cooling fins on the Chara?

They still have oil flow through them for lubrication, here's an extract from a conversation I had with them:

Our ball bearing units are made with premium ceramic nitride balls and steel races, which helps dissipate better than conventional steel ball and steel race bearings. Garrett introduced the watercooling for extended race use to combat the heat created from friction using steel balls and steel races. Therefore, the cooling effect of the oil is more than adequate. However, it is recommended watercooled or not, turbochargers need moderate airflow across the bearing housing/turbocharger for cooling.

I know what you're saying about the boost pipe from the compressor housing with the full race mani, you have to take it at 90 degrees away from the mani as quick as possible, although I've been playing with different set ups and maybe clocking the compressor housing round 180degrees instead.

[RyanRs]

3s blocks are just too risky when making more than 350 whp. Rev 1,2 and 3 all tend to crack, usually between cylinders or at the water pump. How much power you make over 350whp before it goes is unknown but its usually between 350 ~ 500whp. I currently have a rev3 block and being as these are particularly weak on the cylinder walls, i had them bored out and fitted with Cromo sleeves. At about 480whp the sleeves have sunk in the block enough to stop the head gasket from sealing. Hitting boost just boils the coolant and dumps literally 1/4 of the coolant out the overflow.

I am a bit lucky however as my 3s bottom end is a stroker with a 5s crankshaft so all i need to do a 5s bottom end conversion is the block and new pistons (plus a few misc parts). I am getting a 1998 5s block as there the strongest of the lot and having the coolant passages part filled with block cement to add some extra strength. Ill gain iirc 85cc more displacement and have a bullet proof bottom end with this. If i could go back to when i got the 3s stroker bottom end, i would have gone 5s to start but back then it was a new idea and there was not enough info on it.

[MR2 Rich]

3s blocks are just too risky when making more than 350 whp. Rev 1,2 and 3 all tend to crack, usually between cylinders or at the water pump. How much power you make over 350whp before it goes is unknown but its usually between 350 ~ 500whp. I currently have a rev3 block and being as these are particularly weak on the cylinder walls, i had them bored out and fitted with Cromo sleeves. At about 480whp the sleeves have sunk in the block enough to stop the head gasket from sealing. Hitting boost just boils the coolant and dumps literally 1/4 of the coolant out the overflow.

I am a bit lucky however as my 3s bottom end is a stroker with a 5s crankshaft so all i need to do a 5s bottom end conversion is the block and new pistons (plus a few misc parts). I am getting a 1998 5s block as there the strongest of the lot and having the coolant passages part filled with block cement to add some extra strength. Ill gain iirc 85cc more displacement and have a bullet proof bottom end with this. If i could go back to when i got the 3s stroker bottom end, i would have gone 5s to start but back then it was a new idea and there was not enough info on it.

Thanks for the explanation. For the money going the 5S road it does seem the way to go with the big power builds.

[afennell]

Interesting, so what turbo would you suggest if you were after a fast road / track car keeping spool times as low as possible?
I’m not looking at chasing big bhp numbers and will be running on standard internals for the time being.
I have been offered a Precision 5130 or 4831.