Hi John,
Fair enough about the Honda's, was hoping it would stay on thread rathe than a discussion about whether the dyno is accurate or not(!).
Well, you'd think the 4-1 would push the power band more towards the top end. But, yes, I'm sure I could more the torque by adjusting the exhaust pulley.
The rev limit isn't lower on AE86's. I'm not sure what you mean there as you can see on the graph it ran to 7718rpm (rev limit should be 7599rpm).
I actually watched the RPM when it buzzed the limiter and it was at around 7700 and that was on the stock ECU.
4AGE budget cam install and tuning
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
2020 GR Yaris - Circuit Pack
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Are there any differances in ECU between the AE86 and the mr2? I know its the same engine usually!
Alex
Alex
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
AE86 had the early ECU. The early MR2s shared the same engine and ECU as the AE86. Though, there are different part numbers for early ECU's and obviously JDM and UK ECU's differ.
The later MR2's, '87 on had the later engine and later ECU. Rev limits are the same on all at 7599rpm.
Earlier ECU's had more aggressive mapping and opened the TVIS slightly later. They were also mapped right through to the rev limiter, whereas later ECU's just dumped loads of fuel in at high revs.
I'm sure Jeremy can give you the intimate details on it.
The later MR2's, '87 on had the later engine and later ECU. Rev limits are the same on all at 7599rpm.
Earlier ECU's had more aggressive mapping and opened the TVIS slightly later. They were also mapped right through to the rev limiter, whereas later ECU's just dumped loads of fuel in at high revs.
I'm sure Jeremy can give you the intimate details on it.
2020 GR Yaris - Circuit Pack
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
3 types of ECU have been used in the UKDM spec Mk1 MR2
89661-17030 Small case Mk1a
89661-17070 Bigger case Crossover 1b
89661-17140 Case as 070 Later 1b
Peter
89661-17030 Small case Mk1a
89661-17070 Bigger case Crossover 1b
89661-17140 Case as 070 Later 1b
Peter
Last edited by elbon50 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
so by that then the early ECu would be best, just plug and play?
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
No, early engines have no injector resistor pack, late engines do, so if you plug an early into a late or vice versa bad things will happen.
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Lauren wrote:
Earlier ECU's had more aggressive mapping and opened the TVIS slightly later.
It's the other way round operating points for T-VIS are
MK1a it comes in at 4350rpm and stays in until the revs fall back below 3950rpm.
MK1b it comes in at 4650rpm and stays in until the revs fall back below 4250rpm
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
elbon50 wrote:3 types of ECU have been used in the Mk1 MR2
89661-17030 Small case Mk1a
89661-17070 Bigger case Crossover 1b
89661-17140 Case as 070 Later 1b
Peter
That's just for the UK, there's actually a lot more than 3
89661-17020- :01 :8412-8608 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..MTM
89661-17021- :01 :8608-8708 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..MTM
89661-17030 Nov 1984 to Aug 1986 UK MTM
89661-17050- :01 :8508-8608 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ATM
89661-17051- :01 :8608-8708 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ATM
89661-17070 Aug 1986 to Aug 1987 UK MTM
89661-17201- :01 :8708-8712 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..GT..USA CALIFORNIA SPEC
89661-17130- :01 :8708-8803 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..SPC..USA CALIFORNIA SPEC
89661-17140 Aug 1987 to Dec 1989 UK MTM
JDM
89661-17010- :01 :8406-8608 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11
89661-17090- :01 :8608-8702 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..SPC
(SUBS) : :89661-17091- :01 : : :
89661-17060- :01 :8608-8709 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..TWC
89661-17091- :01 :8702-8709 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..SPC
(SUBS) : :89661-17180- :01 : : :
:
89661-17180- :01 :8709-8805 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..SPC
(IRRG)
89661-17160- :01 :8709-8809 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..TWC
(SUBS) : :89661-17161- :01 : : :
89661-17161- :01 :8809-8810 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..TWC
(SUBS) :89661-17162- :01 : : :
89661-17161- :01 :8810-8904 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..MTM..TWC
(SUBS) :89661-17162- :01 : : :
89661-17210- :01 :8810-8904 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ATM..TWC
SUBS) :89661-17211- :01 : : :
:
89661-17220- :01 :8805-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ATM..SPC
:
89661-17230- :01 :8805-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..MTM..SPC
89661-17162- :01 :8904-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..MTM..TWC
89661-17211- :01 :8904-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ATM..TWC
General
89661-17040- :01 :8411-8608 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..GEN
89661-17080- :01 :8608-8708 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..GEN
:
89661-17100- :01 :8608-8708 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..FRG
89661-17190- :01 :8708-8803 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ARL
(SUBS) : :89661-17191- :01
89661-17140- :01 :8708-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..EUG
89661-17150- :01 :8708-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..GEN
89661-17170- :01 :8708-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..FRG
89661-17140- :01 :8803-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..RHD..GEN SINGAPORE SPEC
89661-17191- :01 :8803-8912 :COMPUTER, ENGINE CONTROL :AW11..ARL
Abbreviations
TWC = Twin cam (the NA)
SPC = Supercharged
ATM = Automatic Transmission
MTM = Manual Transmission
EUG = Europe General
ARL = Australia Spec
FRG += Federal Republic of Germany Spec
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Lauren - my dyno on page 2 goes to 8000
tottacrolla, Lauren - did you notice any drivability changes with your modified ECUs?
so, looking at Lauren's dynos, it looks like they they add fuel (and possibly back off ignition advance I wonder) so you lose power with stock or mild cams...
tottacrolla, Lauren - did you notice any drivability changes with your modified ECUs?
so, looking at Lauren's dynos, it looks like they they add fuel (and possibly back off ignition advance I wonder) so you lose power with stock or mild cams...
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Also...
almost missed this post!
really interesting!
was your remap just fueling or did he get the det cans out and remap timing too?
I'm just wondering how much margin there is in the stock ECU ignition timing map, for running hot cams. Although since seeing how rich it runs even with the cams on my dyno (and excess fuel should help prevent det) I've been running my engine on 95 (super just for trackdays). It hasn't blown up yet lol.
JMR_AW11 wrote:It's definitely worth addressing the overfuelling.
A few years ago I had my stock mk1b remapped by Rich Benton at Powerstation Tewkesbury and he removed the stock overfuelling whilst remapping the fuelling and it does help hold onto power past the peak. My car delivered a fatter torque curve and produced smoother power at high rpm.
After mapping I'm not sure the car was realistically any faster but it was the sweetest 4AGE engine I'd ever driven when being driven hard although it was a fairly good one anyway.
almost missed this post!
really interesting!
was your remap just fueling or did he get the det cans out and remap timing too?
I'm just wondering how much margin there is in the stock ECU ignition timing map, for running hot cams. Although since seeing how rich it runs even with the cams on my dyno (and excess fuel should help prevent det) I've been running my engine on 95 (super just for trackdays). It hasn't blown up yet lol.
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
He had the det cans on but just did the fuelling although he did trim part of the ignition table at part load at around 4000rpm to remove some detonation sounds.
It was about 6 years ago (scary how time flies) and I sat alongside him whilst we did the mapping.
I did mean to go back the following week to get the ignition mapped but never got round to booking it in.
It was about 6 years ago (scary how time flies) and I sat alongside him whilst we did the mapping.
I did mean to go back the following week to get the ignition mapped but never got round to booking it in.
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
so at the weekend I went to the dyno to try out my latest cam timing (in -5, ex -7) and get my apexi SAFC set up properly.
my work here is done
my work here is done
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Nice work
So whats next on the list of mods?
So whats next on the list of mods?
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
I was hoping you would update this thread!
I got to go out in Vashy aka Emmett Brown's car on Saturday and it certainly is a lot of fun. Really revs all the way to the red line.
Thanks to him I have also joined the HKS crew, so I'm hoping for a rolling road session of my own soon.
I got to go out in Vashy aka Emmett Brown's car on Saturday and it certainly is a lot of fun. Really revs all the way to the red line.
Thanks to him I have also joined the HKS crew, so I'm hoping for a rolling road session of my own soon.
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
thanks!cartledge_uk wrote:Nice work
cartledge_uk wrote:So whats next on the list of mods?
a shift light
LeSpank wrote:I got to go out in Vashy aka Emmett Brown's car on Saturday and it certainly is a lot of fun. Really revs all the way to the red line.
hahahaha!! actually I reckon I can get a flux capacitor hooked up to the 4AG with some old japanese fuelling computers and some bits of hose, and it does get up to 88mph pretty quickly now!
LeSpank wrote:Thanks to him I have also joined the HKS crew, so I'm hoping for a rolling road session of my own soon.
cool and let me know when you´re on the dyno; if I´m free I´ll come down and bring my timing light and a mirror on a stick I reckon getting the exhaust cam timing set right for those long secondaries on your janspeed should make some good torque
Lauren wrote:Great result, John, well done!
cheers Lauren!
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Hi Vashy,
I have a pair of HKS 264 8.35 cams which I bought from Chris (Oukie) a while ago
Hoping to get around to fitting them soon
Will the clearances change very much with the "new" cams in
Shall I be able to borrow the shim bank & Tool
Do you have the bank @ the mo ?
Ahhhh questions questions
Peter
I have a pair of HKS 264 8.35 cams which I bought from Chris (Oukie) a while ago
Hoping to get around to fitting them soon
Will the clearances change very much with the "new" cams in
Shall I be able to borrow the shim bank & Tool
Do you have the bank @ the mo ?
Ahhhh questions questions
Peter
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
Hmm, quite tempted to set my cam timing the same as your's John.
IIRC think I've got -3 and -4.
Obviously I don't have an SAFC.
Just out of interest, do you think it's worth doing John?
Would take under 20 mins to do as getting to my cams is a POP.
IIRC think I've got -3 and -4.
Obviously I don't have an SAFC.
Just out of interest, do you think it's worth doing John?
Would take under 20 mins to do as getting to my cams is a POP.
2020 GR Yaris - Circuit Pack
Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
elbon50 wrote:some stuff about clearances
After fitting new HKS cams to my engine, the clearances were very close to what they were before and all still within spec. I´ve seen HKS cams installed in another engine that had clearances all within spec afterwards. Proper japanese cams made, I expect, to some pretty tight tolerances. Someone else has the shim bank, I bumped the thread recently, please bump it again to keep it on the first page!
Lauren wrote:Just out of interest, do you think it's worth doing John?
go nuts
note that the ideal exhaust cam timing will be different with different exhaust manifold lengths, and, according to my tuning book, will be peakier with your 4-1, which means it will be easier to tune, because it will be easier to feel where the peak is.
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Re: 4AGE budget cam install and tuning
vashy wrote: Someone else has the shim bank, I bumped the thread recently, please bump it again to keep it on the first page!
I think I should sticky that thread.