FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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Neil_turbo
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FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by Neil_turbo »

I have been working on these for a while now, and the rears are just about there :thumleft: They are universal fit arches but highly modified as they were a country mile off the shape of the mk1!

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(note there is no filler on these, just fibreglass!, final prep will be done once the long list of other jobs has been done!

The picture shows the car still on stands, and you can see the inner arch is still there. soooo, people running wide arches, what have you done to raise your original arches?

Thanks

Neil
pk_090
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by pk_090 »

me and a couple of mates did a wide arch kit on a 325bmw e36 a couple of weeks ago. I know the principles could be the same hopefully. Started ff by marking where the fibreglass arch would go top and bottom. Cut the original arch away with a grinder roll the arch with an arch roller, and then weld the standard arch back together to stop water and such getting in, spray with primer and and put some under seal on stop it rusting then just bolted the arches on as he wanted the bolt on look. By doing that gets rid of the side wall touching the arch when lowered (due to the arch being rolled) and then weldign up to seal from water stopping the tyre and tread hitting the existing arch. ill see if i can dig some photos from it.
elbon50
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by elbon50 »

Neil_turbo wrote:I have been working on these for a while now, and the rears are just about there :thumleft: They are universal fit arches but highly modified as they were a country mile off the shape of the mk1!

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You say "highly modified" Neil. In what way ? What exactly did you do to alter them ?

Peter
Neil_turbo
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by Neil_turbo »

In terms of shape of the arch, both curve against the body and length of curve (they were to short for the arch, length so were 2cm in at front and back), modified the flare to match the wheels and taper smoothly and the point at meeting the sideskirt

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elbon50
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by elbon50 »

Are you planning to widen the track Neil ?

How would you do that ?

I don't like wheel spacers

That lightweight car that PW had seemed to have much wider track front & rear

Never found out how they had achieved that

Peter
Neil_turbo
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by Neil_turbo »

Yep this car will have wider track, wheels at the rear will be 8j, with 7j at the front.

The car is running over 350 hp so this should help get the power down at the rear!

There are no spacers used. It is achieved using wider wheels with a lower offset.
pk_090
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by pk_090 »

nuthing wrong with spacers.....or is there something im missing?
elbon50
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by elbon50 »

Am sure spacers can be perfectly OK Alex

I just don't like them

Have seen some nasty setups, some of which I felt were potentially dangerous

I have strong views about some things :)

Peter
kaiowas
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by kaiowas »

pk_090 wrote:nuthing wrong with spacers.....or is there something im missing?


In general there's nothing wrong with using them, fitted properly they are no different to using a different offset wheel. Some people go too far which gives them a bad name though.

Whenever you start mucking about with aftermarket wheels or spacers etc the important thing to always bear in mind where the the location of the centre of the tyre tread will end up relative to it's original position. If you move it further away from the wheel bearing then you'll increase the load on the bearing which will shorten it's life. The further you move it the worse this effect becomes until ultimately, at the extremes, it becomes dangerous. The classic example is some of the seriously wide arch bodykits where people use huge spacers to move the standard wheels outwards instead of fitting the wider wheels which should be used in the first place.

In an ideal world if you need the outside edge of the wheel moving out by 10mm you'd fit a 20mm wider wheel adding 10mm to the outside and 10mm to the inside without affecting the overall offset of the wheel. whether you achieve this via spacers or by carefully selecting the right offset is is irrelevant. Of course in the real world clearances around brakes and suspension as well as wheels not being available in an infinite range of widths and offsets mean that compromises have to be made but if you stick to this principle as closely as you can then there shouldn't be a problem.
pk_090
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by pk_090 »

kaiowas wrote:
pk_090 wrote:nuthing wrong with spacers.....or is there something im missing?


In general there's nothing wrong with using them, fitted properly they are no different to using a different offset wheel. Some people go too far which gives them a bad name though.

Whenever you start mucking about with aftermarket wheels or spacers etc the important thing to always bear in mind where the the location of the centre of the tyre tread will end up relative to it's original position. If you move it further away from the wheel bearing then you'll increase the load on the bearing which will shorten it's life. The further you move it the worse this effect becomes until ultimately, at the extremes, it becomes dangerous. The classic example is some of the seriously wide arch bodykits where people use huge spacers to move the standard wheels outwards instead of fitting the wider wheels which should be used in the first place.

In an ideal world if you need the outside edge of the wheel moving out by 10mm you'd fit a 20mm wider wheel adding 10mm to the outside and 10mm to the inside without affecting the overall offset of the wheel. whether you achieve this via spacers or by carefully selecting the right offset is is irrelevant. Of course in the real world clearances around brakes and suspension as well as wheels not being available in an infinite range of widths and offsets mean that compromises have to be made but if you stick to this principle as closely as you can then there shouldn't be a problem.


agreed yes, but widening the wheels can produce other things ( heavy steering, more expensive tyres slower top speed etc etc).
PW@Woodsport
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

There's nothing mechanically wrong with using spacers from an engineering point of view, Mr2 Ferrari replicas use an 8" rear spacer and a 6" front spacer without any safety issues, sort of puts the 20-30mm spacers normal folk use into perspective. I'll grab a pic of them tomorrow if you like so you can chuckle at the width of them.

I have used up to a 30mm spacer on Mk1's for many years to fill arches out with no problems at all.
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elbon50
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by elbon50 »

PW@Woodsport wrote:There's nothing mechanically wrong with using spacers from an engineering point of view, Mr2 Ferrari replicas use an 8" rear spacer and a 6" front spacer without any safety issues, sort of puts the 20-30mm spacers normal folk use into perspective. I'll grab a pic of them tomorrow if you like so you can chuckle at the width of them.

I have used up to a 30mm spacer on Mk1's for many years to fill arches out with no problems at all.


The lightweight car you bought & sold on seemed to have very wide track Paul. How was that done please ?

Peter
PW@Woodsport
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

The track on that car was standard, no spacers, the wheels were well inside the extended arches by about 4".
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pk_090
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by pk_090 »

PW,
are you away of any spacers that could change the stud patter from 4x100 to 4x114?
Alex
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by cartledge_uk »

pk_090 wrote:PW,
are you away of any spacers that could change the stud patter from 4x100 to 4x114?
Alex


H&R do PCD Adaptors, and list some 4x100 to 4x114. (you may have to look at the vw ones not toyota.

There are also some sold on ebay, but i'd be wary of using those
Neil_turbo
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by Neil_turbo »

Quick seach on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4x100-Hu ... 2564dfd3bc

Sure there are more local suppliers aswell!

I have changed by axle flanges to 5x114.3 if you look in the pictures!
pk_090
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by pk_090 »

cheers guys, ive been offered a set of integra wheels at a very tidy price, only problem is they a 4 x 114.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Thought i'd show some of the arches we have done in the past to help give some of you ideas...

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Note the modified sideskirt triangle for the OEM look.

Full write up on how you can do this below along with what to do with the original arch lip.

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/showthread.ph ... ting-guide.
Image
Neil_turbo
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by Neil_turbo »

thanks Paul :thumleft:

so on this sliced picture... (similar to what i did to make my arches fit!)

Image

have you sliced through the inner wing aswell? how are these usually welded to the outer arch?

my concern is reducing rigidity.

Thanks

Neil
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Re: FAO Widearch people, what have you done to your originals?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Hi Neil, no i just sliced the outer, but the inner on this car was non existant anyway so it didn't matter too much. They are normally spot welded and bonded on a stock Mk1.
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