How much power can you get out of the mk3?

[dellams]

Hi ya guys,

Was just wondering how far you could get with uprating the performance of the mk3? I still plan to stick with my mk2 and finish my long term project goals with it but once that is all done I would also want to start a mk3 project.

I will prob still keep the mk2 as well but was wondering whats the max sort of power you could get out of a mk3? I would still want to stick to a turbo engine if possible, once youv'e had a turbo I find it very hard to go back!

I also love me SSQV, thats all part of the experience for me!

Obviously you have less space to work with on the mk3, I wasnt sure if my beloved 3S GTE engine would fit in there?

I know the mk3 has also supposedly better handling than the mk2? And is lighter and is better balanced. Im guessing sticking a bigger engine in there would upset this and could really effect the handling making the back more tail happy again? Thus maybe defeating the point of moving to the mk3?

I may have it all wrong so wanted to put it out there to the peeps in the know and see what you guys thought?

Cheers.

[dellams]

I found this:
http://www.coolcarcollective.com/_Toyot ... Turbo.aspx

And it seems after doing a stage 3 turbo conversion it gets 280bhp giving it a 300bhp/tonne.

So what im wondering now what is the bhp/tonne for a stock rev3 tubby putting out approx 250?

And what would it be for 280/320 and 400 (what ill have eventually on my mk2)?

0-60 times for the mk3 stage 3 tuning would be good too if anyone knows them?

So is 280 the upper limit for the mk3?

Cheers.

[CM1GT]

the big question is do you want to get power out of the original 1zz or put something more powerful in? tune and turbo the 1zz and you'll be heading for the 250bhp mark, or rip it out and drop in a 2zz turbo, 3sgte, supercharged v6, there's plenty of options out there, just depends how big your wallet is

for info a stock rev 3 tubby is 1250kg and 250bhp so 200bhp/tonne

[Rogue]

Was just wondering how far you could get with uprating the performance of the mk3?

Money = power. You tell me how much money you've got, I'll tell you how much power you can have!

http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25392

[Ekona]

I maintain that there's precious little point going beyond 300bhp in the mk3 as the car simply wasn't designed for it, and it becomes a horrible mess of a car. I've driven one at 270bhp and that was more than fun enough for both road and track.

If you really want big power easily then you might as well go and buy an Evo/Impreza and do it that way. The mk3 is all about the balance and fluidity of the chassis and the way you can let the drive flow than 1/4 mile times IMHO.

[dellams]

the big question is do you want to get power out of the original 1zz or put something more powerful in? tune and turbo the 1zz and you'll be heading for the 250bhp mark, or rip it out and drop in a 2zz turbo, 3sgte, supercharged v6, there's plenty of options out there, just depends how big your wallet is

for info a stock rev 3 tubby is 1250kg and 250bhp so 200bhp/tonne

Well im quessing if you starting putting heavier engines in like the 3sgte then your mess up the perfect weight distribution those lovely guys at Toyota spent ages setting up!

So the best thing is to try and keep the weight as close to the original as possible. This 2zz turbo engine is basically an upgraded better version of the original 1zz engine? Is the weight pretty close too?

Whats the most you can get out of the 2zz?

Lets say, money is no object so whats the top whack we are looking at? Without sacricing the handling characteristics of course...

I heard that if you go much over 300 it will become undrivable and very unsafe since your pushing it way faster than it was designed for.

Again, correct me if im wrong?

Cheers.
p.s. Very nice looking engine bay there rogue, surprised how much you can squeeze into that small space!

Does that exend into the boot or something? As I recall from my mates mk3 it didnt have a rear boot? Cant remember what was at the back there now...

[dellams]

forgot to ask... was there an easy formula I could use to work out the bhp/tonne for any mk2 rev3 for any power?

So I can work it out for myself for 280, 320, 400 and 500 (all power goals I have in mind for the long term project...).

Cheers.

[Ekona]

Rev3 weighs 1270kg according to what I could find after a quick Google, no idea how correct that is but it doesn't sound a mile off. You can work out the bhp/tonne easily from there.

[dellams]

I maintain that there's precious little point going beyond 300bhp in the mk3 as the car simply wasn't designed for it, and it becomes a horrible mess of a car. I've driven one at 270bhp and that was more than fun enough for both road and track.

If you really want big power easily then you might as well go and buy an Evo/Impreza and do it that way. The mk3 is all about the balance and fluidity of the chassis and the way you can let the drive flow than 1/4 mile times IMHO.

Yeah thats what I was thinking too. Found a good site (http://www.letstorquebhp.com/calculator.asp) that calcluates the bhp/tonne plus 0-60 times, etc, was very useful.

Worked out that a 300bhp mk3 is now far off what my finished mk2 will be when tis 400bhp as can be seen below:

MK3 @ 300bhp
Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 300
Weight without Driver (KG) : 950
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 320.86
0 - 60 (Secs) : 3.92
0 - 100 (Secs) : 9.40
60 - 100 (Secs) : 5.49
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.22
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 113.98
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.12
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 115.32

MK2 @ 400bhp:
Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 400
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1250
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 325.14
0 - 60 (Secs) : 3.89
0 - 100 (Secs) : 8.67
60 - 100 (Secs) : 4.78
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.09
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 118.08
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 11.99
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 119.43

so the mk2 will just about beat it in a drag race but would be very close! But then I know on the track the mk3 would p1$$ all over the mk2 at that power!

Cheers.

[dellams]

Rev3 weighs 1270kg according to what I could find after a quick Google, no idea how correct that is but it doesn't sound a mile off. You can work out the bhp/tonne easily from there.

I heard it was 1250? Does it depend on what accesories you have such as air-con, etc im guessing to account for the 20kilo difference?

Could do with weighing mine some how! To take account all of the mods too since im sure the bigger turbo, etc would add a fair amount to the weight too.

Also got to consider that im guessing to get the mk3 to 300 your have to add a fair bit of weight too with the turbo conversion and bigger engine?

Cheers.

[Ekona]

You'd probably save weight, pretty sure I did on mine. The stock manifold, cat & exhaust weigh a ton, a nice turbo setup really won't weigh any more. My car certainly felt better balanced post conversion anyhow.

[dellams]

You'd probably save weight, pretty sure I did on mine. The stock manifold, cat & exhaust weigh a ton, a nice turbo setup really won't weigh any more. My car certainly felt better balanced post conversion anyhow.

Thats good to hear! Yeah I have one of those Garatt GT's so their hopefully not too heavy? But also have a chargecooler so im guessing that adds a bit of weight back on again?

But then saying that I havent got the stock intercooler anymore and im quessing that also weight a fair old amount?

Cheers.

[dellams]

I have heard that the chasis cant handle even 300bhp since it flexes under the strain due to it never being designed to take that power.

Im guessing that would effect handling?

And could even be damn right dangerous?!

Maybe something could be done to re-inforce the chasis or something?

Cheers.

[Rogue]

Maybe something could be done to re-inforce the chasis or something?

[CM1GT]

Maybe something could be done to re-inforce the chasis or something?

does the hood still work with this or is it a hardtop only job?

think the amount of cage there says a lot about the power of the 2zz turbo

[Rogue]

does the hood still work with this or is it a hardtop only job?

think the amount of cage there says a lot about the power of the 2zz turbo

That's our standard MSA spec roll cage that we developed for the MR2 Championship - I've got the same one in my lowly 1ZZ n/a! You can use it with the soft top, but you won't be able to lower it. The hard top is bolted in place, and can be removed in a couple of minutes.

[dellams]

So the hardtop can be removed just like on the TBAR?

And you find the chasis is then strong enough to take the 300bhp? No flexing or anything? Handling still spot on, weight distribution, etc?

Cheers.

[Ekona]

The chassis can take 300+bhp no worries with a few bits of bracing (mainly a front strut brace and a mid-body plate) so it'll never be dangerous, but with that much power through a car that weighs so little and has a track + tyres miles too small for that sort of power (unless you've gone widebody with big rimz) then the car simply feels overpowered and becomes more of a SLJ machine than a nimble roadster. Each to their own and all that, but I personally think it ruins the essence of the car.

[dellams]

The chassis can take 300+bhp no worries with a few bits of bracing (mainly a front strut brace and a mid-body plate) so it'll never be dangerous, but with that much power through a car that weighs so little and has a track + tyres miles too small for that sort of power (unless you've gone widebody with big rimz) then the car simply feels overpowered and becomes more of a SLJ machine than a nimble roadster. Each to their own and all that, but I personally think it ruins the essence of the car.

SLJ?

[Timsmr2]

SLJ?

Straight Line Junky