ARB Mounting corrosion - with pics (hopefully)

[dopiaza]

Hi,

Well after sorting the crankshaft pulley problem (big thanks to everyone who helped) I thought I'd have a look at the knocking noise from the front nearside. Not the usual droplinks problem but found big problems wth the arb mountings. On the nearside, one of the bolts came half out and now just rotates without undoing any more - I'm assuming it's a captive nut that has broken free. Other bolt basically was joined to rusty air!

Thought I'd completely remove the arb to get a better look and one of the bolts on the offside sheared off after half an inch or so of undoing though luckily the area round that mounting looks in much better shape. What's the best fix for this?

This is my first go at posting pictures so please be gentle if I make a balls up, but hoping someone can tell me whether this is a really difficult area to weld up? God knows how it passed the MOT last year, it was definitely the same then.

Last question - driving without arb - is it dangerous? Obviously this would just be to take it to get fixed and I'd drive accordingly but is there and real damage that can be done in a short journey?

Cheers,
Graham

NSF mounting bolt hole corrosion:



NSF other bolt just spins around:



OSF sheared bolt - metal looks in much better condition than NSF:

[crazylegs]

clean off all the underseal and rust so you can see what you are doing.
i would suggest some heavy gauge metal welded over the top with new captive nuts welded to the back. you will have to drill out the old/knackered ones first. you will never get it through an mot with anything too flimsy.
you may have to go for something large to get some good metal to weld to.

[coverco]

Hi,


Last question - driving without arb - is it dangerous? Obviously this would just be to take it to get fixed and I'd drive accordingly but is there and real damage that can be done in a short journey?

Cheers,
Graham

It is not dangerous at all, you could actually remove the ARB for an MOT if you wanted. The car will not handle as well but if you take it easy you should be OK. I see you are in Leeds, I am in Barnsley and if I can help let me know, I can weld and have drills and taps

I also know Peter at S-Bits usually has the ARB bushes and his place is about 3 miles from me.

[System-G]

There aren't captive nuts in the area, it just tapped metal.

These were my bolts:


The metal was OK enough though and not rotted like yours. We re-tapped.


But the thread was still not strong enough and stripped on tightening. So we helicoiled successfully

I would go for what Tommy says. Weld in new metal, drill & tap

I drove my car for a week without the ARB it's fine just don't try take a roundabout at 60mph

[Bender Unit]

Personally to fix that I would do the following. Get a flap disc on an angle grinder and remove the rust, paint and underseal. Get some thick metal plate (maybe 2mm / 3mm), cut to size and shape – put the holes you need into the metal plate to mount the ARB brackets; then on the back side weld in some nuts so you can bolt through into something study. Then just weld the pates onto the subframe. Of before you weld use some weld through zinc primer on the bare metal otherwise it may corrode again between the joins. Paint over the plate. Refit ARB.

[dopiaza]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, I've been in touch with Tommy (coverco) and he's going to take a look at it with me. No captive nuts eh... so why won't the bolt come out? Maybe just needs a bit of brute force after all that's dead metal now.

Planning to replace all bolts that are removed, is it Mr T for these or are they a standard size that I can pick up at a hardware store? The workshop manual I've got doesn't show bolt specs - does the EPC? By the way - how do you access the EPC? Is it downloadable?

Looks like the crossmember will need to come off too, I assume these bolts are just as likely to shear off as the ARB ones?

Cheers,
Graham

[Bender Unit]

Soak the bolts in WD40 before undoing them.

Get a ring spanner on the bolt head and then use a rubber mallet to smack the other end of the spanner - this should shock the bolt loose before it sheers. Its torque that sheer's a bolts usually.

Get new bolts for an engineering supplies (not B&Q) just search for fasteners / nuts and bolts etc on google or yell. Should turn up a few places. Take a nut to them and they will find what you need - they will know the pitch by looking at it.

Ask for high tensile too.

[System-G]

No captive nuts eh... so why won't the bolt come out?

If you have a look at the pictures of the bolts that came out of mine, you'll see why.

The top part of the bolt is left exposed to the elliments and rusts - sometime away and others just makes a mess of what thread may be. Whilst the threaded bit you can see is what is in the threaded part of the metal and more protected.

The brute force method worked well for me

[oukie]

Your crossmember should come off ok (wd40) but on the car I removed one off ,(shed) it was a pig because these are held on with captive nuts and the floor on this old car was so rotton I just ripped the metal out around the bolt lol

But as your car isnt on its way to the scrappy you may wish to go down a more gentle roote , My fingers are crossed that it comes off, Mine did in the end and none of the bolts sheared but I had to cut one off due to rust.

[kaiowas]

you could actually remove the ARB for an MOT if you wanted.

Technically you can't. A missing ARB on an axle that should have one is a valid reason for failure. However, whether the tester is clued up enough to notice you've removed it is a different matter

[coverco]

you could actually remove the ARB for an MOT if you wanted.

Technically you can't. A missing ARB on an axle that should have one is a valid reason for failure. However, whether the tester is clued up enough to notice you've removed it is a different matter

If I were you I would not buy a Supercharger or a JDM car as they have all the holes and brackets for a rear ARB but they don't have one fitted. That would confuse the MOT man

[MartG]

If I were you I would not buy a Supercharger or a JDM car as they have all the holes and brackets for a rear ARB but they don't have one fitted.

My imported SC has a rear ARB fitted

[coverco]

If I were you I would not buy a Supercharger or a JDM car as they have all the holes and brackets for a rear ARB but they don't have one fitted.

My imported SC has a rear ARB fitted

They have the holes and brackets but as far as I know they were not fitted at the factory, you can of course fit one yourself

The point was that an MOT person can not fail a car if an ARB is not present as they do not affect the road worthiness of the car.

[MartG]

If I were you I would not buy a Supercharger or a JDM car as they have all the holes and brackets for a rear ARB but they don't have one fitted.

My imported SC has a rear ARB fitted

They have the holes and brackets but as far as I know they were not fitted at the factory, you can of course fit one yourself

The point was that an MOT person can not fail a car if an ARB is not present as they do not affect the road worthiness of the car.

Nope - it was fitted when imported

[coverco]

My imported SC has a rear ARB fitted

They have the holes and brackets but as far as I know they were not fitted at the factory, you can of course fit one yourself

The point was that an MOT person can not fail a car if an ARB is not present as they do not affect the road worthiness of the car.

Nope - it was fitted when imported

I did say they were not fitted at the factory, I assume you did not import the car from new so could they possibly have been fitted by the Japanese owner?

I am not totally sure but I do know of at least three SC's that do not have rear ARB's fitted. Perhaps someone who has more knowledge of SC's can clarify this

[coverco]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, I've been in touch with Tommy (coverco) and he's going to take a look at it with me. No captive nuts eh... so why won't the bolt come out? Maybe just needs a bit of brute force after all that's dead metal now.

Planning to replace all bolts that are removed, is it Mr T for these or are they a standard size that I can pick up at a hardware store? The workshop manual I've got doesn't show bolt specs - does the EPC? By the way - how do you access the EPC? Is it downloadable?

Looks like the crossmember will need to come off too, I assume these bolts are just as likely to shear off as the ARB ones?

Cheers,
Graham

Graham, sorry I just saw this I would not worry about bolts I am sure I will have something suitable in my big box of bits and bobs, although if we get desparate Peter Gidden usually has all the Toyota suspension bolts (brand new) in his even bigger box of bits

[kaiowas]

The point was that an MOT person can not fail a car if an ARB is not present as they do not affect the road worthiness of the car.

They can:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_240.htm

See section G2

[Lauren]

I did say they were not fitted at the factory, I assume you did not import the car from new so could they possibly have been fitted by the Japanese owner?

I am not totally sure but I do know of at least three SC's that do not have rear ARB's fitted. Perhaps someone who has more knowledge of SC's can clarify this

Whether or not an SC has a rear ARB is dependent upon it's year of manufacture.

1987 SCs did not seem to have rear ARBs.
However I can say with absolute certainty that 1989 SC's do, just like our SE has which is a very original car.
There is a crossover point in 1988 whereby some will have rear ARBs and some will not. Generally it's the earlier 1988 cars that didn't and the later ones that do.

As is well known JDM cars did not have such a high spec as UK cars when it comes to ARBs and also the JDM cars had a lack of oil coolers.

I guess it would follow that the rear ARB situation for JDM cars affects NA's as well, but it's harder to be sure on that simply because not many NA's were imported.

[coverco]

The point was that an MOT person can not fail a car if an ARB is not present as they do not affect the road worthiness of the car.

They can:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_240.htm

See section G2

This is actually quite interesting and having done a google on it, you are correct. The interesting thing is what happens when you present a car for MOT and the tester decides it has a missing ARB where one should be fitted, the tester is advised to phone the nearest dealer or the vehicle inspectorate, I wonder if they would have information on imports such as an SC or a tintop. I aslo had a chat with my next door neighbour at work who gained his MOT testing certificate last week and he was under the impression that if it wasn't present then it was not a problem. I will have to check a tintop NA as (I think) they were all imports to see if it has front and rear ARB's, in fact I know someone who has one

[crazylegs]

interesting, my auto SC was without one but my manual has one. you would have thought the extra weight would have been a factor