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WMS Brakes-> SW20 4 pot brake kit: 495.00+vat (also 2.5% or 5% IMOC discounts!)
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 498
Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

mr2magic wrote:
[Think] Hmmm, no rears with parking brake.....would look kind of funny. Let's see what the T?V says anyway.


It'll be a step in the right direction at least, fingers crossed!

mr2magic wrote:
[Idea] I see! Of course the arc of the disk changes with diameter causing the disk to touch the bridge at some point! I forgot about that [Very Happy]


Yup! The same applies to road calipers as well, including the rear Toyota ones.....I need to see what's possible there. [Whistle]
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 641
Location: Hannover, Germany
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hey Keri,

I just received a reply from the german T?V and it's not good [Sad] Here the original:

Guten Tag Herr Regler,

da Sie f?r die Bremsanlage keine Gutachten und Pr?fungen durch einen akkreditierten Technischen Dienst nachweisen k?nnen, muss diese komplett nach den einschl?gigen Richtlinien gepr?ft werden. Dazu sind umfangreiche Tests auf geschlossenen Pr?fgel?nden erforderlich. Der Gesamtaufwand daf?r betr?gt ca. 6.000,- ?.
Falls Sie n?here Informationen w?nschen, wenden Sie sich bitte an

Marcus Berg
T?V NORD Mobilit?t
IFM - Gesamtfahrzeug
Am T?V 1
30519 Hannover

Basically he says that because the brakes have no valid certificate with regards to material, construction, safety ect. the T?V would have to validate all this before even thinking about taking a look whether the brakes 'fit' on my MR2. The approx. cost of this one time check would be ?6000,- [Shocked] Kind of out of my price range for a set of fronts [Wink]
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 498
Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
Feedback Score: 1



PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Ouch! Well that's something we are aiming to do in the future, and E6,000 isn't too bad as long as it passes! If it fails then it's very painful - I don't suppose your contact could forward the specifications that have to be met for TUV approval by any chance? Thanks for asking for us! [Applause]

By the way, one thing that's WELL worth doing with stuff imported from the far east etc is to make sure you see a copy/photo of their TUV certificate (or even better ask your local TUV guy to confirm the approval from their records).

How can I put this......TUV / ISO / EC stickers are cheap to print for the unscrupulous out there (I'm talking about all products here, from brake pads to washing machines). [Wink]

WMS would be trying get genuine approval needless to say. [thumleft]
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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Location: Hannover, Germany
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Ouch is right! [Very Happy] For a company ?6000 is peanuts if you can sell enough units following the testing. What it comes down to is single unit price compared to competitors and potential market size. You'd have to check up on D2, K-Sport and Move-It to see where you are in relation.

I'll pass the question on to the appropriate civil servant [Wink] I'll let you know as soon as I have an answer. If you still want to try for such a certificate let me know and I can liase for you.

What you write about the stickers/emblems is absolutely true [thumleft] One good check is to see whether the acronym T?V has the two dots above the U. Most chinese/korean/taiwanese copy shops don't bother to change the character set when printing [Wink] If the dots are missing leave it be!!
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 498
Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

lol - check for the dots! Thanks for talking to the TUV chap, much appreciated... [thumleft]
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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Location: Hannover, Germany
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hallo Keri,

received an answer this morning [Very Happy] They would test and check according to ECE 13H - revision 1-6. If your brakes pass you receive a certificate which can be used to prove conformity for all sold units. The buyer takes this certificate to the T?V and can then pay for the one off check and certificate for his car.
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Great stuff, thanks! [Applause]
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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Location: Hannover, Germany
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

My pleasure! Let me know if I can be of further help [Smile]
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

This kit is now live, as the lines have passed fitting/testing - see start of thread! [Mr. Green]



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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Oops, "under construction" post one info is now up-to-date! [d'oh!]
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Keri-WMS




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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

A few people have asked for a photo of the kit behind a wheel, here's the only shot I've got - sorry about the nasty wheel (the only 16's I had kicking around!) but you get the idea!!!



[d'oh!]
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I've been working on bias a bit recently, ONLY as a simplified "brake setup vs brake setup" comparison, not an overall car study - so this ignores everything other than the caliper/pad/disc.

Here are four example setups that work, interesting results I thought, especially how close they all are to the OEM bias, and that we can do a kit to match the Rev 1 rear brakes!!

Standard Rev 1 Mk2:


Standard Rev 2 Mk2:


...so that's the standard cars, here are the upgraded options....

Rev 2 rear brakes matched with 298.5mm disc / 1.38" piston WMS kit, what most people would use I'd have thought:


Rev 1 rear brakes matched with 298.5mm disc / 1.25" piston WMS kit, handy to know it works:


-------------- the ones below don't have a handbrake (WMS 4 pot front and rear) so are full-race only -----------------

Maintains bais, might have a soft pedal:


Increases front bias, medium pedal:


Increases rear bias, best pedal:


Last edited by Keri-WMS on Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Race Idiot




Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Location: London
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1994 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

cant wait [Dancing]
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
cant wait [Dancing]


[Mr. Green]
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hot off the press, here's the monster WMS T30x caliper at long last! It uses a mono-bridge design which makes it very very stiff vs the competition, giving really good pedal feel but at a fraction of the cost of a true monoblock. It's also the next size up from the T20 caliper.

The plan for it on the Mk2 is to fit it inside the 15" OEM Turbo front wheel....watch this space. [Mr. Green]

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monkeyra




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Hertfordshire
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1990 Toyota MR2 Mk2 V6

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

What's a mono-block caliper when it's at home then? Not a term I've come across before.

And what would the advantages of using this over your other kit be? Increased braking pressure?
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

monkeyra wrote:
What's a mono-block caliper when it's at home then? Not a term I've come across before.

And what would the advantages of using this over your other kit be? Increased braking pressure?


A monoblock caliper is machined from one solid lump, not two halves bolted together. This makes it as stiff as possible, but very very expensive to make - so expensive they are varely used outside F1 and some supercars etc.

The WMS T30x's "mono-bridge" is really a hybrid that uses the best of both worlds, where at least the bridge (the part taking with the highest forces) is one part, stiffening the whole caliper but without the huge cost.

A stiffer caliper means one of two things at the end of the day:
1 - Harder pedal with better feel, with the same power/piston size.
...or...
2 - Bigger pistons/more power, without the usual softer pedal.

[Mr. Green]
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Race Idiot




Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Location: London
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1994 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Keri-WMS wrote:
Hot off the press, here's the monster WMS T30x caliper at long last! It uses a mono-bridge design which makes it very very stiff vs the competition, giving really good pedal feel but at a fraction of the cost of a true monoblock. It's also the next size up from the T20 caliper.

The plan for it on the Mk2 is to fit it inside the 15" OEM Turbo front wheel....watch this space. [Mr. Green]

Image Replaced With URL For Quote [url]http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/WMS-T30x-800x600.jpg[/url]


Awww man, with what size disc?

Also the 15" turbo front wheel is the same as the na from rev2 onwards btw
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
Keri-WMS wrote:
Hot off the press, here's the monster WMS T30x caliper at long last! It uses a mono-bridge design which makes it very very stiff vs the competition, giving really good pedal feel but at a fraction of the cost of a true monoblock. It's also the next size up from the T20 caliper.

The plan for it on the Mk2 is to fit it inside the 15" OEM Turbo front wheel....watch this space. [Mr. Green]

Image Replaced With URL For Quote [url]http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/WMS-T30x-800x600.jpg[/url]


Awww man, with what size disc?

Also the 15" turbo front wheel is the same as the na from rev2 onwards btw


280mm. I hope to do 280x20.5mm rotors+bells with no wheel spacer needed, plus a one-peice disc version (cheaper) that would be a bit thicker and therefore might need thin wheel spacers...if I used the Rev 2 276x32 disc it might need a 10-12mm spacer which defeats the point of a kit "for that wheel".
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Just a heads-up as we're down to the last few days where if anyone wanted to order a kit now I can just about keep it at 17.5% vat instead of 20%.

The reason is that HMRC has made a rule that as long as something is paid for before the vat rate goes up in Jan, the "vat date" can be in Dec (17.5%) instead of being the shipping date (which is the usual rule, and forces the vat to 20%).

So if anyone wants to dive in and save that extra 2.5% drop me a PM ASAP! [thumleft]
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