Mk2 or Mk3 for track work?

[HughesR1]

I'm sure this has probably been covered a few times somewhere, but I'm looking to get back into an MR2 and start doing trackdays again.

I'm not interested in any of the turbo cars, its either between the Mk2 tintop N/A (rev2-5) or a Mk3 Roadster. It used to seem quite a straight forward decision when solid rust free SW20's were readily available for not a lot of money, but nowadays not so much. Is the Mk3 now the car to go for if you want cheap trackday fun? How does a stripped out SW20 compare to a stripped out roadster?

Bare in mind I've got an Integra DC2 currently and tracked an Elise for 4 years. I understand either MR2 is probably going to be a step down in performance, but I'm looking for a cheap trackcar that doesn't matter if it has a few trips in the gravel/tyre wall, or have silly JDM "scene tax" on second hand parts.

[aussieGT]

For enjoyable racing i'd say mk3, and only because of it's bolt on bolt off panels. (well that and they are going for peanuts and there's parts everywhere!)
I like the mk2 much better, but bend a rear quarter and it stays that way without a whole lot of work.

[SonicSW20]

Mk3 is considerably lighter, handles better, and will be easier on your consumables like tyres and brake pads.

[kaiowas]

I'm not a fan of convertibles as track cars without some form of additional protection so I'd only use a mk3 as a 'dedicated' track car if you are planning to fit either a cage or a structural rear hoop.

[pistol pete]

I had loads of fun as a mk3 track car.. was a lot more "fun" than my mk2, that was more serious..
See here
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176621
See my sig for youtube, have a few vids of my mk2 and mk3 on track..

but you want a cheap track hack.. either will be great.. The mk3 with a 2zz in it is very fast, if you fancy sticking another engine in
Stripped mk3 and a stock engine is the most fun i have ever had on track. I thashed mine for almost a year within a inch of its life doing loads of track work, driving to and from track. never any issues.. not one.. then i put interior back in.. and its now a young ladies daily driver and she loves it..

but a roll over hoop i would recommend for safety.. but i never did

[HughesR1]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies. Swaying me more towards a Mk3 now.

Looking at the MR2 Championship lap records, there is hardly anything between the Mk3 and Mk2 which is a bit of a surprise as the power/weight ratio is similar for both cars, but the Mk3 has the advantage of 200kg lighter so I'd assume better handling & braking would mean its actually a tad faster?

With regards to choosing a Mk3 roadster, I've heard the pre-facelift engine can have a few issues with the pre-cats etc. Surely this isn't an issue if you fit an aftermarket manifold and decat pipe etc??

[pistol pete]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies. Swaying me more towards a Mk3 now.

Looking at the MR2 Championship lap records, there is hardly anything between the Mk3 and Mk2 which is a bit of a surprise as the power/weight ratio is similar for both cars, but the Mk3 has the advantage of 200kg lighter so I'd assume better handling & braking would mean its actually a tad faster?

With regards to choosing a Mk3 roadster, I've heard the pre-facelift engine can have a few issues with the pre-cats etc. Surely this isn't an issue if you fit an aftermarket manifold and decat pipe etc??

Look first few post of my link..
removed the manifold.. bash them out with hammer and screwdriver.. Job done.. and free

[kaiowas]

Looking at the MR2 Championship lap records, there is hardly anything between the Mk3 and Mk2 which is a bit of a surprise as the power/weight ratio is similar for both cars

Weight limits for the championship are managed in order to keep the different marks on a similar pace

[HughesR1]

The pre-cat fix looks simple enough. After having a good read of your thread Pete I'm now swaying towards the Mk2 again, purely for the same reason you did as I'd like to compete in something like the SprintSeries. Or if I felt that way inclined, drop a 3SGTE motor in and enter the MSV Trackday Trophy.

I guess really depends on getting the best car I can for my money! (now off to trawl the ebay...)

[pistol pete]

you can find some really good mk2's out there.. you will have a great time in both..
As for the sprint series.. get a stock one.. come join the street class.. and go from there.. i joined it as a complete novice.. its cheap and a lot of fun..

[MilesH]

Looking at the MR2 Championship lap records, there is hardly anything between the Mk3 and Mk2 which is a bit of a surprise as the power/weight ratio is similar for both cars

Weight limits for the championship are managed in order to keep the different marks on a similar pace

The regs on the mk3 are a lot more relaxed than the mk2's in order to make them comparable. The mk3's have a wide choice of upgrades allowed including coilovers, exhausts, manifolds, LSD etc. Whereas the mk2 regs are very strict, with the only performance modifications allowed are decat and exhaust (original manifold must remain), bilstein suspension (or re-oiled standard shocks) and brake pads.

It makes for very good, close racing. But don't be fooled that in standard guise they can both lap a track at the same pace (given the same driver). But with a few tweaks above the mk2 they can be much proved.

I race a mk2 and the later breaking of the mk3 is really noticeable and makes for a much more nimble car, it is only on a straight line drag that the mk2's extra bhp comes into effect.

For trackdays I would choose a mk3 as you can throw them around more and have fun (which is the idea of trackdays), but I do love racing my mk2 and wouldn't swap to a mk3 on the grid.

I came from Elise's and the mk3 is the closest I have found, but no matter how direct the steering is, it is definitely NOT on the same level as an elise.

[HughesR1]

Ah I didn't know that. On that basis then, I take it a with manifold, coilovers, etc and stripped down the Mk2 even further would for sure be the quicker car?

How do you find the gearing on the two cars? I've always been under the impression that the mk3 box would feel alot shorter than the mk2?

I have mentally accepted that not much is going to compare to the Elise chassis. But this still makes a compelling argument for the Mk3. I'l have to sort a test drive out.

[Race Idiot]

As someone who tracks a MKII i'm gonna say the MKIII is the better cheap trackcar. Although if you can get a nice cheap NA tintop MKII that might be a good place to start also.

[Rogue]

Alex, since you're in Warwickshire you can't be too far away from Rogue Motorsport. We've got more than a dozen MR2 Championship cars here and I'd be happy to show you around and talk through the pros and cons of each.

One thing worth considering if you're building a track car is to build it to MR2 Championship spec or something that can easily be converted. It will be worth a lot more when you come to sell it.

[HughesR1]

Alex, since you're in Warwickshire you can't be too far away from Rogue Motorsport. We've got more than a dozen MR2 Championship cars here and I'd be happy to show you around and talk through the pros and cons of each.

One thing worth considering if you're building a track car is to build it to MR2 Championship spec or something that can easily be converted. It will be worth a lot more when you come to sell it.

I would appreciate that very much. I notice I tend to work the same hours as your opening hours unless you're open on a saturday? If I'm able to pop in in the week I'l give your office a call.

Building a car that meets the MR2 Championship regs was what I was aiming to do (with the addition of coilovers on a Mk2 which is easily reversible).

Based on your experience whats your views on the Mk2 or Mk3 as a trackcar with regards to performance, reliability and fun factor?

Cheers

[gavsdavs]

Mk3 is considerably lighter, handles better, and will be easier on your consumables like tyres and brake pads.

This. mk3s are good track cars and are lighter on their feet/parts/tyres.

[HughesR1]

So taking into account all of the above, there is a 2ZZGE Mk3 roadster that I may be viewing on Sunday. Although its a bit more than I would have liked to pay for a track car, it obviously has the additional power the mk3 lacked, but with all the benefits. I'm also guessing as it has the 2zz engine there will be no pre-cat or oval bore issues?

[HughesR1]

So I managed to test drive a 2ZZ Engine swapped Mk3 roadster. It seemed like a very capable car, engine characteristics similar to my Integra (Which has now been sold!) and handled as I expected... a stock Elise with added bodyroll.

However I really couldn't gel with the look of the thing, and the fact its a roadster and not a proper tintop car. I know as a weekend track car looks are the last thing that matters but at the time I just couldn't bring myself to hand over the cash for something I just didn't like the look of, silly I know!

The car is still for sale so maybe I'l look into possible aesthetic mods that can be done to improve it. Meanwhile I'l keep an eye out for a solid Mk2.

[SonicSW20]

Here's some examples to get you started -









(bit mental)





Just sorting the wheels / tyres / suspension makes a massive difference.

[HughesR1]

My god some of those black ones with wide bronze wheels look brilliant! Thanks for the inspiration I'l have a talk with the seller today. At the end of the day its not mega money, worst case I don't get on with it then I can always sell it on.

Thanks again for all the advice.