10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

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oilman
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10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

I get asked all the time "why do you advise against the use of 10w-60?".

Let's get one thing clear, I supply 10w-60 and recommend it where it is appropriate for the engine or the application but conversly I caution against it's misuse!

I have debated this many times on many car forums and I know there are some that do not agree with me however I have never had a reasonable technical explanation why 10w-60 is in fact suitable, it's certainly not mentioned in the handbooks of many modern highly tuned performance cars, with the exception of some Alfa Romeos for "spirited driving" whatever that is meant supposed mean.

Explaining this is diffucult so there may be questions but I'll try my best to explain it in plain English!

Lets look at what oil specs actually mean and particularly the higher number which is in fact the oils SAE number (the "w" number is in fact the cold crank viscosity and measured in a different way) The SAE number is measured by the oils viscosity at 100degC.

Your cars require according to the manufacturers specs, sae 30, 40 and in some cases sae 50.

To attain the relevent sae number the oil has to be at 100degC (no thinner than)

SAE 30 11cst approx
SAE 40 14cst approx
SAE 50 18cst approx

Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

As viscosity varies with temperature, the value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is measured. In the case of oils, viscosity is generally reported in centistokes (cst) and usually measured at 40degC and 100degC.

SAE 60 is in fact 24cst viscosity at 100degC!

This is 33% thicker than an sae 50, 70% thicker than an sae 40 and over 100% thicker than an sae 30!

So, what's the problem with this thickness?

Well, this is measured at 100degC and at lower temps (70-90degC) all oils are thicker than at 100degC so the problem is compounded to some extent.

The downsides of such a thick oil (when not specified) are as follows:

Additional friction, heat and wear.
A reduction of BHP at the wheels
Lower fuel consumption

The thicker the oil is the more friction and drag and the more power the engine needs to move it around the engine which inevitably translates to less at the wheels.

So, when do we spec a thicker oil?

Well, you will probably have seen us on occassions recommending a 10w-50 but only in these circumstances.

1. If the car is heavily modded and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
2. If the car is used on track and heat/oil temperatures are excessive.
3. If it's required by the handbook.

Our criteria for this is based on oil temps as an sae 40 semi-synthetic can handle around 110degC for limited periods whereas a proper synthetic sae 40 can hande 120-130degC for prolonged periods due to its thermal stability.

Once you see more than say 120degC for prolonged periods an sae 50 is adviseable as it is 18cst at 100degC and still 11cst at 130degC! This is in fact the same as an sae 30 at 100degC.

More importantly at 90degC an sae 40 is 15cst, an sae 50 is 20cst and an sae 60 is 30cst!

In a worst case scenario with thick oils (when not required) is that you will experience air entrainment and cavitation inside the bearings at high RPM. Not clever stuff!

I know this is technical stuff but oil is a combination of science and engineering and few people know enough about it to make an informed choice. Just because your mates use it and have had no problems is not a good enough reason to use it, your engine would prefer and benefit from the correct oil.

Cheers
Simon
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Fred

Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by Fred »

Cheers for that ! Knowledge can realy mean power sometimes . :)

(BTW , I think you ment to say higher fuel consumption though )
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

Yes, lower MPG

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Simon
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by matt_mr2t »

How often would you change the oil - 3k miles?
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

It totally depends on the quality you are using.

Cheers
Simon
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by aaronjb »

oilman wrote:It totally depends on the quality you are using.


And what you're doing with the car, presumably?
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by Peter Gidden »

Cheers fo that - excellent =D>

Question - and i am sure you'll sigh and whisper "not again" under your breath.... 8)

Why is the first (lower) number in an oils's rating often result in it being described as "too thin". Isn't that technically inaccurate??
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

Yes it is, in fact oil is around 40 times thicker at 0degC than it is at 100degC!

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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by Peter Gidden »

Sorry, i realise that - what i meant was the side-by-side comaparisons of 0w, 5W and 10W and their pros/cons for say, a given type of engine.
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

"w" means winter so the "w" number is the cold crank/pumping viscosity at a given low temperature.

The lower the number the better cold start flow.

We tend to recommend 5w or 10w for UK winters.

Visc.........Crank/Max/Temp.....Pumping/Max/Temp

0W..............6200 at -35.............60 000 at -40
5W..............6600 at -30.............60 000 at -35
10W............7000 at -25.............60 000 at -30
15W............7000 at -20.............60 000 at -25
20W............9500 at -15.............60 000 at -20
25W............13 000 at -10..........60 000 at -15

With regards to 0w it'll be a cold winter, for sure but....not that cold!

Cheers
Simon
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by Peter Gidden »

Thanks for that Simon. Now i always thought the first number was to do with viscosity at a cold temp, and you have confirmed that.

So, putting both of your replies together, and assuming people who respect their engines keep off the fast pedal til all is warmed up, why do i hear so many saying "that oil is too thin cos it is a 5Wxx" or "10Wxx or/and 15Wxx are much better than a 5Wxx for a given engine"....

Surely once warmed up the first number is irelevent??
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

Yep, totally spot on.

It's one of those myths. A 0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 or 15w-40 is still an sae 40 and has a viscosity of 14cst at 100degC.

I posted something here before (I think it was called "a common misconception") which explains this.

Cheers
Simon
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by raptor95GTS »

oilman wrote:...
With regards to 0w it'll be a cold winter, for sure but....not that cold!

Cheers
Simon


or live in scotland lol
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Re: 10w-60 My reasoning, an explanation

Post by oilman »

0w was designed for the Arctic circle originally, its mainly on the shelf here due to fashion..... yes oil companies make fashion statements too!

Cheers

Guy.
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