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[Mk2] [Generic] fuel fittings
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: [Mk2] [Generic] fuel fittings Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hi all,

Trying to fit braided fuel hose to the stock fuel tank pressure line, ended up with the wrong parts to hook the fuel line up.

I'm utterly lost in this hose fitting world, please guide me through the fog (*,)


The wrong fitting is the AN6 solid fuel feed from the fuel tank, just behind the heatshields. The normal 6an female hose ends do screw onto the fitting but not far enough to lock it tight on the pipe, so fuel would leak as the whole joint moves around on the hard pipe.

This is the part that doesn't work, seems like the tread is too short or the inner shape is wrong for the hard metal flared pipe.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-6-AN6-STRAIGHT-Stealth-Black-Teflon-Hose-Fitting-/171314533959?hash=item27e3245647


All the other parts are fine at the filter and up to the fuel rail, just this one junction doesn't work and I'm too out of my depth to work out which part should work.

This is what I'm trying to achieve.


So what fitting is needed to connect that fuel feed corretly to a 6AN teflon, braided hose?

cheers
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I've personally done this..

There are two ways, you can cut the hard line just aft of the stock flare fitting and use a 5/16 compression to -6an fitting

https://www.holley.com/products/plumbing_an_fittings_and_hose/adapters/special_purpose_adapters/parts/165056ERL

And then fit up the rest of the hose as normal, you need an m12-an6 adapter for the fuel filter than then a fuel hose with a female an6 at each end to joint the two

If you have managed to get the stock line apart without cutting the pipe you can use a female m14 inverted flare to 6an male adapter instead of the compression fitting, they're commonly sold as a Bosch FPR adapter

Don't cheap out on eBay fittings either , fuel lines are no joke.. spend the money on proper earls or speedflow fittings


[thumleft]
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Thanks, very helpful info there.

Right think I've been a bit daft here.

Seems I already had a fitting that will go on properly, it just didn't take up the slack until using spanners to close the joint rather than fingers.
Thing is that inside it's just a falt edge to the hole face and not a shaped cone to go into the flare.

Did manage to get the old fittings apart without breaking anything so the original flare is on the end.

Just checked my order and did order a "AN -6 (6AN -06JIC ) Male to M14x1.5 Female Bosch Regulator Swivel Adapter" which does have the cone shaped end inside but will not even start on the treads of the hardline fitting. Wondering if they sent me the wrong part?
Better measure it and see what size it really is.

Got all the other fittings not problem and this all seems simple enough. Just to rule out and stupid errors on my part, getting a local hose/fitting firm to build the hoses and trim the hose. This way I know my handywork won't lead to a lose joint on a hose end or a poorly installed end.
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

A little more info..

Used Torques who are a Welsh company, after a number of other forum members recommended them. Kit seems nice, but then I'm new to the world of fittings.

some pics of the problem/car





You can see the flare on the end of the pipe there too.



And this is the Bosch adaptor fitting that doesn't fit.




it is a 1.5 thread
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Where you're measuring the stock line fitting.. is that across the root or the crest of the threads? It's an m14x1.5 so the OD of those threads should measure out around 13.8mm.

If the other m14 fitting you have screws right on then the bosch adapter fitting you have is probably bad/wrong.

Torques stuff is just 'ok' - made in china but with a uk reseller and branding.. I've used them before on low pressure, non fuel applications, and would again for things like water injection lines, boost controller lines etc but for the difference in cost between them and "real" fittings (aeroquip, earl's, speedflow, goodridge) I'd rather have the peace of mind.
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Think it was the full width but will measure again tomorrow to make sure.

The fitting that went on was just a 6AN fitting, perfect fit. Will measure that too.

Got any good links for fittings. keep finding american sites where it's all in imperial. any uk resellers?
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I always buy speedflow where possible, they're the best AN fittings available in my opinion, there is a uk website.

If I need to buy more than a handful of fittings then it's worked out cheaper in the past for me to buy Earl's fittings from summit racing in the states and pay the shipping and vat rather than source them in the UK
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

only need like 5 bits so prob not worth the US tax/duty thing. The solid adaptors I'm not worried about, it the swivel ones that make me think twice.
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monkeyra
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Speedflow or Earls all the way. I've got Earls on mine, and a single Torques fitting as they were the only supplier for what I needed. There is a difference in quality, and with a fuel system I wouldn't skimp.
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

For what it's worth, this is why speedflow is the best you can buy (and earls are still very good)

Both 'identical' straight 6an 'cutter' hose ends (nobody uses taper hose ends, do they? [Laughing] )



The earls one has been used, but ignoring that the quality of the machining and anodising on the speedflow is better - for some reason the SF one looks massive, they're both within a couple of mm of each other in reality.




Speedflow (right) has a wider sealing face than the earls





The speedflow firing has a nicer insert for the hose, you can just see the very slight taper that's machined in to help it slide Into the hose





And the money shot, the internal diameter of the speedflow fitting is bigger, not by much, but still going to flow slightly more for the same nominal size of fitting

That said.. for cost reasons there's more earls than speedflow on my car.
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JAAASH
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Some nice comparisons there Rob! [thumleft]

Would be interesting to see the same again with some of the Torques fittings, as they're what I'm using for my entire fuel system currently.
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tiff_lee




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Bit late on this but just for reference the standard hard line male fitting has a SAE flare (45 deg) and AN use a 37 deg flare, so while the thread may be the same the sealing surfaces technically aren't compatible although i'm sure many people have used AN fittings.
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I'll measure the fittings over the weekend for the Torque parts. I did already do this after the above posts but forget the numbers off hand.

Yeah good point tiff. as listed above, there is a bosch style fitting that fits. Have ordered one of these for better fitment. Really don't want poor fitting fuel connections. [thumleft]
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

So got the collection of Speedflow parts turned up during the week and thought I'd stick the bosch coverter / m14 inverted flare, fitting onto the hard pipe as a nice way to start the weekend.

Thing is the "correct" fitting doesn't go on the thread. It starts about 1/2 a turn and then binds. Didn't want to force it but put some spanners on there and applied gentle force but not joy.

The threads are 1.5 and it's an m14 fitting, it's stamped as such too. but it won't go on.
The 6an fitting goes on perfectly well, just has the wrong internal shape for the flare.

2 people have told me the correct part is the one I've just failed to be able to fit. what could be the issue with that?
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

So just measured everything to workout what's going on.

the threaded end on the hardline is 14.04mm to the tops of the thread and 13.34 to the valleys of the threads.

speedflow m14 fitting is 12.44mm measuring the inside of the threads, so the tips of the threads.

so it seems the m14 fitting won't fit the car's stock fitting as it's slightly too small.

AN fitting is closer at 12.80mm, this does wind on well. however has the wrong internal shape for the flare.

someone found this link for me, still seems like a bit of a bodge.
https://midshiprunabout.org/mk2/fuel-line-upgrade-to-an-fittings-and-braided-lines/

there are at least 2 people running that setup but it's not quite correct so uncomfortable to do that, what with the risk of a fuel leak.
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Cut the standard fitting off and install a compression fitting (as I did), bodging it with the wrong fitting and ptfe tape is plain scary!
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

after some more chat elsewhere it was pointed out that the 6an fitting does go on but the threads are wrong, there is slack in the threads before the joint goes tight.

so for me that is the 6an directly onto the stock fitting ruled out as a bodge.

looking like cutting the flare off and using a hardline converter. 5/16" tube to AN fitting.
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

C35Rob wrote:
Cut the standard fitting off and install a compression fitting (as I did), bodging it with the wrong fitting and ptfe tape is plain scary!


agreed!
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

so once again I'm feeling lost in the world of hose fittings. [Brick wall]

cutting the hard line seems to be the best way forward, new fittings are needed for this to meet the 6an fittings.

So far due to the size of the stock hardline speedflow can't supply the part (or i can't find them on their website) so earl's or torques seem to be the other options..

earl's

http://www.earls.co.uk/earls100/earls_shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=275_159_212&products_id=691


http://www.earls.co.uk/earls100/earls_shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=275_159_211&products_id=686


http://www.earls.co.uk/earls100/earls_shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=601

at a cost of 30.45.


or Torques


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-6AN-JIC-AN6-STRAIGHT-Male-5-16-8mm-Tube-Adapter-Black-/360590883587?hash=item53f4e43b03

7.99


Yes the Earl's are going to be made to a tighter quality. but the method of sealing the end is also different.
Are these the only options? Would you choose one over the other for technical reasons?

If the more expensive part is better (safer) then so be it, it's not like it's hundreds of pounds.
Toughts?
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

the earls part you've listed would require you to flare the pipe,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Earls-165056ERL-Fitting-6-AN-Male-to-5-16-Tube-Aluminum-Red-Blue-Each-/331399423953

that's the proper earls 5/16 compression fitting, I used this exact one on mine
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