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[Mk2] [Turbo] Oil and water temps on track - what do you see?
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: [Mk2] [Turbo] Oil and water temps on track - what do you see? Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Yesterday I finally got my freshly built '2 out on track at Bedford. Although it was the SEN circuit (rather than full GT) it was still lots of flat-out fun!

Now given it was a very warm day too, I was seeing oil temps of 120 and coolant temps of 105-110. As a result, maximum 15 minutes into each session my Link G4+ Xtreme was ignition cutting, a little unnerving mid-corner!

I plugged the LINK in and got onto the phone to my mapper, Garth at MGT Motorsport (a really great guy) and we adjusted the protection a little to give me a couple more laps before limits kicked in.

Thinking about next upgrades, I'm wondering whether coolant or oil temp is my next thing? What I don't know is whether the coolant is a function of the oil i.e. hotter oil will ultimately mean hotter coolant?

I'm on standard cooling with uprated fans right now. Oil is Millers CFS 10w40 on the stock setup too.

Any advice appreciated from fellow trackday IMOCers [thumleft]
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pbmr2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

if you regularly see oil temps over 120 then an oil cooler would be a good move.

Cooling. Could maybe make sure the rad is properly ducted at the front, so no air can creap round the side of over the top/bottom. forces the air to pass through the rad.

Aluminium radiators conduct the heat better and are often a row or 2 thicker so have more cooling capacity. The extra rows really help.

Do you run uprated cooling pressure cap or higher temp thermostat? These are not going to help.

Put the cabin heater on with the fans on max, it's a mini radiator so will help cooling a little. Makes the cabing extremely hot though.
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androo007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

was it the oil & water temps cutting ignition or the IAT's? Important difference there chap.

What intercooling system do you run?

Definately time for a remote oil cooler, i believe 100'C is ideal.
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ashley
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

xx

Last edited by ashley on Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

androo007 wrote:
was it the oil & water temps cutting ignition or the IAT's? Important difference there chap.

What intercooling system do you run?

Definately time for a remote oil cooler, i believe 100'C is ideal.


It was the coolant temperature ultimately that was causing protection to kick in.

IATs were lovely - my new Radtec kit doing its job perfectly [thumleft]
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

ashley wrote:

Your coolant temeratures are too hot though, as mentioned- have a look at a decent aluminium radiator core and make sure your water pump is in great condition, also make sure your whole coolant system is clean, with no leaks and using decent coolant. Ideally you don't want to be much above 100c, you may see brief peaks above that, but it needs to be coming back under 100c pretty quickly as you come off boost.

And yes...anything you can do to aid air flow through your radiator will massively help, if you do it right you'll find it helps high speed handling as well...


Coolant system is good, water pump replaced when I built the engine with new genuine Toyota. Clean coolant, good coolant too.

Airflow at the front may be hindered by chargecooler rad so need to look at that. I'd like to modify bonnnet to aid airflow too.

Very quickly after pulling off track my coolant temps came down so it's definitely a WOT, full boost scenario that punches them above 100c.
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

pbmr2 wrote:


Do you run uprated cooling pressure cap or higher temp thermostat? These are not going to help.

Put the cabin heater on with the fans on max, it's a mini radiator so will help cooling a little. Makes the cabing extremely hot though.


I do run a 1.3 bar cap which is a new addition! I didn't see temps this high before so maybe that's the issue now? Although I alsways thought these helped by preventing the coolant from boiling? Need to get my head around that!

Running with heater on full helped the car loads but not me- it was boiling on Saturday and with a race suit and helmet on it was unbearable to be on track like that. But it certainly proved the concept - more hear out = happier car!

Sounds like next steps are a bigger aluminium radiator up front and some ducting to force air through it.

Any of you added ducting on a standard bumper / bonnet setup?
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Race Idiot
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Last year around this time I did the full GT circuit. I could only do around 6 laps before oil temps were reaching 125c. Coolant temps were also in the low 100's.

Didn't have any problems with the car performance wise as I tend to always run low boost at the track atm. I probably could've got away with staying out longer but didn't want to risk it as the current engine is a bit leggy anyway.

I tend to use a 10w50 grade oil as this should help with the hotter temps.

Most other tracks you probably wont see such high temps as, bedford is fairly long (like 3 something miles?) and has a tonne of straights. At brands and donnington it took far longer for the oil to reach a high temperature, as you aren't on the throttle as much as bedford.

Saying that my engine build is going to be running a phoenix power oil cooler and an ally rad to keep temps in check on track.

Are you still on the stock sidemount IC?

Edit: Lol can believe about it being sweaty, I was just wearing a t-shirt and was coming back to the pits drenched.
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
Last year around this time of year I did the full GT circuit. I could only do around 6 laps before oil temps were reaching 125c. Coolant temps were also in the low 100's.

Didn't have any problems with the car performance wise as I tend to always run low boost at the track atm. I probably could've got away with staying out longer but didn't want to risk it as the current engine is a bit leggy anyway.

I tend to use a 10w50 grade oil as this should help with the hotter temps.

Most other tracks you probably wont see such high temps as, bedford is fairly long (like 3 something miles?) and has a tonne of straights. At brands and donnington it took far longer for the oil to reach a high temperature, as you aren't on the throttle as much as bedford.

Saying that my engine build is going to be running a phoenix power oil cooler and an ally rad to keep temps in check on track.


It's a good shout re boost, I could add a switch on a digital input to switch to a lower boost for situations such as Saturday.

Makes sense about location. The only other track I've driven that is similar to Bedford is Croft and that doesn't have the length of straight or same WOT runs, which explains why I haven't had this problem before. It's usually colder up there too!

It's also possible my new build is generating more heat than my old, standard engine, even though I'm on roughly the same power output.

I'm thinking about engine longevity though, so certainly cooling needs improving. Once I've done that and a couple more trackdays, I can take a view on the oil side of things.
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Race Idiot
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

My oil temps are a bit higher than my old turbo as my lil TD05 is only oil cooled unlike the CT20's.

I recon go for an oil cooler, a better rad and an oil with a higher hot grade.

I want to keep mine as cool as possible on track so I can do as many laps as I can handle haha.
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
I want to keep mine as cool as possible on track so I can do as many laps as I can handle haha.


Totally! Whilst my talent probably runs out after 15 minutes it would be nice to have the option to run for longer [Very Happy]
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GreddyMR2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I get 120C after a few laps and even more after few more laps (130C or so). But it was only once, I don't run for so long until I have an oil cooler. I am running on 10W60 oil.
Water temps are above 100C I think. I raised water temp rev limit to 110C and it's ok. Stock gauge doesn't pass half so I suppose it's ok. And I have alloy water radiator.
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iecku




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

You should take a look at the oilcooler kit from Underground Racing Germany for the MR2. Youīll definitely have no oil temperature issues anymore!!!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/underground.developments/photos/?tab=album&album_id=904335236323496
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

iecku wrote:
You should take a look at the oilcooler kit from Underground Racing Germany for the MR2. Youīll definitely have no oil temperature issues anymore!!!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/underground.developments/photos/?tab=album&album_id=904335236323496


Looks impressive!

I can't help wonder whether there'll be sufficient airflow here though, after all it was always a problem on the original side mount and most aftermarket sidemounts too...

I wonder if there is a smaller fan that would fit a little better but still provide effective cooling?

Certainly one to ponder on - easy enough to fab up [thumleft]
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Race Idiot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I don't think you can compare the performance of an intercooler to an oilcooler tbh.

It's not uncommon for people to mount their oilcoolers in that location, but not with such a nice shroud. Thats where i'm going to put my PP oilcooler, although

I do like the look of that setup, is there any more information on it? Prices?
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iecku




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

It works to well for street, you definitely need a thermostat when using it there. I developed it for my V6 Turbo Timeattack car and some friends have seen that part in my garage and had this on the car years before my car will run. The shroud will take a Setrab 330x146mm oil cooler, which is is bigger than an oil cooler you can fit on a flat sheet in this position and airflow is also perfectly guided to the strong spal fan, if it is needed. If interested just PM me. [Wink]
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
I don't think you can compare the performance of an intercooler to an oilcooler tbh.

It's not uncommon for people to mount their oilcoolers in that location, but not with such a nice shroud. Thats where i'm going to put my PP oilcooler, although

I do like the look of that setup, is there any more information on it? Prices?


It's a good point, we're dealing with different temperature ranges for a start ( more akin to ECT I guess in range).

Sadly my Radtec charge cooler core is mounted there, and a fine job it's doing too! So need to think of somewhere else to mount the oil cooler...

Finally started stripping the interior out this weekend - no going back now [Shocked]
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iecku




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Havenīt done any good experience with a radtec chargecooler...way too small...thatīs why we are using big liquid intercoolers on the engine bays gearbox side in any bigger build in germany.
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Chumbaside
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

iecku wrote:
Havenīt done any good experience with a radtec chargecooler...way too small...thatīs why we are using big liquid intercoolers on the engine bays gearbox side in any bigger build in germany.


Have you used a new core as opposed to the original design? As above, I'm seeing IAT's of max 24 degrees and that was on a very hot day at a fast track!

I spoke with Radtec at length before taking the plunge - yes I bought mine new - and they talked a lot about the new core being far more efficient than all those in circulation second-hand.

What were your bad experiences? I'm curious...
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androo007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

They're good to about 400hp.
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