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[All] [Turbo] standalone ecu boost spikes
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: [All] [Turbo] standalone ecu boost spikes Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

hi all

just after some advice on the below graph


https://ibb.co/knynVv

as you can see this does not appear smooth so am i correct it looks like wastgate is unable to hold pressure? car is running standalone ecu and supportong mods

could it be the boost was just too high on this run? so if you turn boost down it will run fine?

or maybe graph yet to be smoothed out?
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

That graph doesn't really tell us anything about boost.
Aside from a potential spike when it spools up.
(Mod list?)

That is a hp vs torque graph

A boost graph would be more informative
[blackeye]
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

jimGTS wrote:
That graph doesn't really tell us anything about boost.
Aside from a potential spike when it spools up.
(Mod list?)

That is a hp vs torque graph

A boost graph would be more informative
[blackeye]


Glad you respond jim as i know you know your stuff. is that boost spike possibly down to running too much boost so actuator can not handle it? hence it spikes then settles down or am i way of the mark. if i was to run on low boost will this be fine to run or will it need a remap to be safe?

ie) if the boost was lower would this eliminate the spike? should this be a concern - or as you say does the graph not really show us much?

unfortunately thats all i have - no boost graph

mods as far as i am aware : ecu link g4, uprated turbo unknown, manifold uprated.

sorry bit of a newbie on this sort of stuff
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Boost spikes usually down to incorrect boost controller settings.
Gain is to high bringing in boost too quickly.

Without a boost graph no one can confirm what's going after this initial spool up area, you'd expect to see a spike in torque when you have a spike in boost.

Can you feel this spike ? And see it on a gauge when driving?

An electronic boost controller tweak should be able to fix this without any need for a remap.
All depends if you can feel it and it's a problem for you?
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

jimGTS wrote:
Boost spikes usually down to incorrect boost controller settings.
Gain is to high bringing in boost too quickly.

Without a boost graph no one can confirm what's going after this initial spool up area, you'd expect to see a spike in torque when you have a spike in boost.

Can you feel this spike ? And see it on a gauge when driving?

An electronic boost controller tweak should be able to fix this without any need for a remap.
All depends if you can feel it and it's a problem for you?


Hi Jim

To be honest no i could not feel this on high boost .... but there was a peak setting stored that indicated a spike ... will go and have a play with the gain settings on the controller. the low boost setting gain was significantly lower than on high boost .... likely upped to get the magic 400 torque figure?

i was just concerned the spike may ruin the engine and it may throw a rod. if i turn the boost down will this eliminate the possibility ?

to see a spike on the controller would it usuall shoot up and then settle around a standard figure. eg) shout up to say 1.35 bar then settle around 1.2?
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

i am guessing it is also safe to reduce the gain on the boost controller without the need for a remap reading the above?

thanks jim
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

adamshaw wrote:

to see a spike on the controller would it usuall shoot up and then settle around a standard figure. eg) shout up to say 1.35 bar then settle around 1.2?



yep, so ideally need to see if this is indeed happening?

id guess your not running only 1.3 bar to see 400lb of torque!


turning boost down will turn boost down everywhere.
i would only be looking at reducing how quick the turbo comes in, usually is the gain setting on a boost controller.

i used to spike with the new td06 when stamping on the thottle, i reduced the gain, now i have much more stable boost control.
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

so me, that boost spike indicates a huge difference in boost.

like its shooting to 2bar when you only want to run 1.7.

peak torque is where the most damage can occur afaik.
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Excellent thanks jim...i will reduce the gain on high boost to get a smoother delivery which should hopefully eliminate the spike

i think someone must have turned the boost up for run as setting is 1
85 bar in max on greddy ebc. should be 1.6 bar.

will redice gain and eliminate spike .... i dont feel it when i drive .... would i know if it was spiking? would i feel the boost suddly drop off / pull back ? would it be obvious when driving? it may be someone already sorted the ebc before me?
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

you should be able to feel a boost spike.

car will pull like crazy and die back down almost immediately once boost levels off.

which makes sense given the look of your torque graph.

eg, shoots to 1.6bar, back down to 1.4, so you would loose/feel torque drop off in that small area.

levelling off the boost gain will im sure mean a smoother torque/power delivery.
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

jimGTS wrote:
you should be able to feel a boost spike.

car will pull like crazy and die back down almost immediately once boost levels off.

which makes sense given the look of your torque graph.

eg, shoots to 1.6bar, back down to 1.4, so you would loose/feel torque drop off in that small area.

levelling off the boost gain will im sure mean a smoother torque/power delivery.


You are a legend mate ... i will keep you posted. i think since the RR someone as tweaked the settings as it seemssmooth now.

current settings low

gain 10%. set gain 0.13 warning 1.2. reduction 15%


settings hi

gain 5% set gain 0.2 warning 1.6 reduction 5%


These look correct and ok? like i say it is smooth - should gain be higher on hi boost ? this is on a greddy prospec b ebc

what settings you running ?
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

you must be missing some settings there?


greddy ebc i thought had, set, gain and set gain.


your set gain seems very low, which i guess is not a bad thing.
your gain is pretty low also already, so again, i wouldnt expect to see spikes.


if you cant feel anything on the road, perhaps it got tweaked already?

you really need to watch the ebc/boost gauge to see whats happening. [Shocked] [blackeye]
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

jimGTS wrote:
you must be missing some settings there?


greddy ebc i thought had, set, gain and set gain.


your set gain seems very low, which i guess is not a bad thing.
your gain is pretty low also already, so again, i wouldnt expect to see spikes.


if you cant feel anything on the road, perhaps it got tweaked already?

you really need to watch the ebc/boost gauge to see whats happening. [Shocked] [blackeye]


sorry first setting on the knob is 39%. then gain is 10. set gain 0.13.

im sure set gain should be nearer desired boost pressure so about 1.2 bar would be better not 0.13?

also if i turn greddy off will it just run from actuator pressure and the base map?
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

yes the set gain should be about 4psi less than the desired boost.
least those were the greddy settings i saw suggested a long time ago.


unless you have maps based on boost pressure (greddy ebc hooked into the link?), then id guess the same timing/fueling will be used on all boost settings to a certain degree (boost pressure is feed to fuel pressure reg so it will add in more fuel more boost it sees anyways).

turning ebc off will run actuator pressure, and likely quite rich on boost id guess. shouldnt cause any harm.
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

jimGTS wrote:
yes the set gain should be about 4psi less than the desired boost.
least those were the greddy settings i saw suggested a long time ago.


unless you have maps based on boost pressure (greddy ebc hooked into the link?), then id guess the same timing/fueling will be used on all boost settings to a certain degree (boost pressure is feed to fuel pressure reg so it will add in more fuel more boost it sees anyways).

turning ebc off will run actuator pressure, and likely quite rich on boost id guess. shouldnt cause any harm.


Thanks Jim

by looks of it sll other settings seem fine ... its the set gain which is really low on both so this must be incorrect ?

0.13 bar on low 0.2 bar on high.

will up this setting and take for a spin.

[thumleft]
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jimGTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

to be fair your actuator pressure is more than this tiny level of boost, so i cant imagine that low a setting is effecting things anyways.


worth a try though, just keep an eye on boost.
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Thanks Jim

will report back when i have adjusted and took for a spin [thumleft]
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C35Rob
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Which model of boost controller have you got? Which turbo? Internal or external gate? Where are you taking your pressure source for both your boost controller and wastegate? How is your boost controller plumbed into your wastegate?
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

greddy profec ii spec b
ecu and 3 bar map sensor
think internal wastegate


took for a spin last night

39% set
10% gain
0.13 set gain which is kpa 13
warning 1.2bar
limit 5%

this hold a steady 1.1 bar from 3rd onwards, 0.87 bar in second

should i hit 1.1 in secong also?

Actuator pressure seems to be 1 bar


not done hi yet...will got to 1.4 so i need to increase set and perhaps start with set gain at 0.2 ... 20kpa and work up from there ?
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adamshaw




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

oh i tried turning set gain to 1.00 from 0.13 and had no power revs went turbo didnt hardly spool. back down to 0.13kpa and woosh turbo kicks in strong

not sure what that tells us? [thumleft]
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