MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
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TristalTips
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

Hi, Hoping some experiences heads on this forum can point me in the right direction. I bought a REV3 for scrap money with a few known issues. Most have been resolved, but the main one I could do with some advice on. Basically the car starts OK and runs, but refuses to rev past 3500. Once you hit that, it feels exactly like you are bouncing off the rev limiter and the spark is being staggered, bang on 3500. Does it in neutral and in gear.
The person who owned the car previously had tried to resolve this by replacing the ignitor and I believe ECU but with no luck. Interestingly, after driving the car home it refused to start properly on the drive, it would start up then immediately die. Suspecting fuel starvation I bridged FP and B+ and the car then ran as before. Looked at it again yesterday and now starts and runs without them bridged. The engine management light is on, but following the procedure to get the codes (engine warmed up, then ignition off, bridge relevant connection and ignition on) just results in the light flashing constantly at 2 times a second with no pauses which seems to indicate no fault. I pulled the negative connection on the battery to reset the ECU but same result.
So really looking for some advice on what to try and in what order. I have a friend with a REV3 NA so can borrow some parts to check/rule things out.
Many thanks to any help you can give.
androo007
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by androo007 »

Have you opened the ECU case to see if there is a blown capacitor?
TristalTips
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

I haven't yet but can do. What should I be looking for?
pbmr2
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by pbmr2 »

check the ignitor part number, they are not the same for all the rev's of engine.
In the BGB it lists how to test the coil and ignitor for resistance, which could show up a fault.

Hitting a solid limit like that has been known with the wrong ignitor fitted.
TristalTips
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

Had q quick look in the BGB but couldn't locate much information on the ignitor. I found information on how to test the coil for resistance. Is the ignitor easy to remove / where is it located? Thanks for your help....
pbmr2
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by pbmr2 »

it's mounted on the same bracket as the coil. Also the bracket is the earth so make sure there isn't too much rust and good contact with the body.
TristalTips
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

OK. So I removed the ECU, which wasn't actually bolted on, so I suspect has definitely been changed. Part number 89661-17500. Opened it up and everything inside looks fine. No bulging capacitors or obviously failed components and no burning smell.
Removed the coil and ignitor. Ignitor is 89621-16020. Coil looks like it may have been changed, as it is cabletied on, and looks like the four screws have been cut off at the top.
Looking at the part numbers I think they are OK?
markstevieandmads
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by markstevieandmads »

The coil earths through the bracket so if its just cable tied then there would be a crap earth to it. Mount it properly and hopefully that may sort it.
Nic
Posts: 1910
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Location: UK

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by Nic »

TristalTips wrote:OK. So I removed the ECU, which wasn't actually bolted on, so I suspect has definitely been changed. Part number 89661-17500. Opened it up and everything inside looks fine. No bulging capacitors or obviously failed components and no burning smell.
Removed the coil and ignitor. Ignitor is 89621-16020. Coil looks like it may have been changed, as it is cabletied on, and looks like the four screws have been cut off at the top.
Looking at the part numbers I think they are OK?


89661-17500 is a Rev1-2 UK 3S-GE ECU

Image

This shows which models the 89621-16020 ignitor is compatible with

Image
Nic
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MR2 Rev 3 GT Turbo
TristalTips
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

OK, thanks for checking that. Not exactly sure how to interpret that information. For background, the car is a 1994 REV3 NA 3S-GE.
Does that mean this is the wrong ECU for the car?
I have looked on Ebay and all those being advertised as off a REV3 have the same part code. (17500) whilst the REV1/2 seem to be 17280/17290.

And what about the ignitor? I am fairly sure that is the original item judging from the rust holding the screws in it has never been changed.

Thanks for your help.
Draven
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by Draven »

The coilpack earths through the bracket, via the screws that are all rusty. When there is too much rust it cannot earth correctly and this causes all sorts of funny running issues.

Honestly dont' get why they used screws to hold it to the firewall.
Nic
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Location: UK

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by Nic »

TristalTips wrote:OK, thanks for checking that. Not exactly sure how to interpret that information. For background, the car is a 1994 REV3 NA 3S-GE.
Does that mean this is the wrong ECU for the car?
I have looked on Ebay and all those being advertised as off a REV3 have the same part code. (17500) whilst the REV1/2 seem to be 17280/17290.


Is it a UK car?

The EPC seems to contradict itself, when I do a search for a UK 94 Rev3 3S-GE it comes up with 89661-17500.

Image
Nic
[email protected]
MR2 Rev 3 GT Turbo
abovetherim
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Location: Leicester

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by abovetherim »

This post I made a while back may help a little.
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... light=coil

As for the ignitor, I haven't seen many posts over the last 6 years that have pointed to ignitor failure. Usually it is coil and/or earthing through the rusty bracket issues.
benjo
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by benjo »

I bought new bracket that includes screws from Toyota for under £10
Too weird to live, to rare to die
TristalTips
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

Wow, £10, you got a bargain. Just popped to Toyota at lunch and was quoted £26. Same part in the US is $9. Go figure. Guess I will be out with the sandpaper and the blowtorch tonight to remove the rusty screws and clean up the contacts! Incidentally I found another ECU lying in the boot, part number 17550, so guess that proves it has already been changed without a result....
benjo
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by benjo »

I'd say bracket would be the favourite even at £26 it's a cheap
Fix for a mr2 :thumleft:
Too weird to live, to rare to die
TristalTips
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

Ok. So having ordered the bracket, Toyota rang back to tell me its discontinued. I can have one complete with Ignitor for £451 if I like! - I do not like! Anyway, so drilled out and retapped old bracket, re-installed coil and ignitor and plugged ECU back in. Lo and behold, engine is running great! Cue victory dance etc, then took it for more a run. Accelerating hard in 3rd and boom, engine light on and performance throttled again. Tried bridging the diag ports with engine still running but this does nothing. Bridged them with engine off and again, no code.
Whilst it was running without the light, performance was good.
Found out today that cambelt was changed 450 miles ago and problem has been intermittent since then - could be related.
I also found a spare ECU in the boot, so I think this was changed as part of the troubleshooting process.
One thing I have found is that there is a loose pipe connection on the air intake pipe on the rear side. It has a plastic plug which slips over a pipe and is loose and comes off. There is evidence of old sealant on it. Maybe unplugging the ECu clears the issue, and then it kicks in after a bit. Not sure if this can cause an issue or not.
Also, would anyone happen to know the bolt diameter and length for the bolt which holds the dipstick connector to the engine. Noticed mine is hanging in the breeze, which doesn't inspire confidence in whoever worked on it last.
Looking for a few pointers if possible - thanks a lot.
markstevieandmads
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Location: Swindon, Wilts

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by markstevieandmads »

If the engine light comes on then there will be a code stored in it. Are you doing the diag check right?

If there is no code but the light is coming on then id say the ecu is at fault.
TristalTips
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by TristalTips »

Ignition off. Connect TE1 and E1. Ignition on. Light just flashes constantly with no pauses. I think this is the correct procedure. I will try the other ECU that is in the boot to see if it makes a difference. Failing that I guess I can try to get/borrow another ECU.
benjo
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Re: MR2 REV3 NA not a happy bunny.

Post by benjo »

Can't believe that only bought my bracket last year mr2ben sells all
Ignition parts and also has second had parts for sale :thumleft:
Too weird to live, to rare to die
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