[Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Anything to do with the electrics of the car.

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JLW
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Location: Tunbridge Wells

[Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Hi Guys

I've recently changed the green 501 dash bulbs for some white LED ones from eBay,

( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161629831750? ... EBIDX%3AIT )

However over the 4 weeks I've had them fitted. They have dulled to a light purple colour !, the eBay seller is perplexed to how they have done this as he said he's sold 20,000+ without issue.

below is how they were when i first fitted them.
( don't mind the hot spots tbh )
Image

now how they are.
Image

any ideas to why they have faded like this ?

thanks,

jordan.
tiff_lee
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by tiff_lee »

Possibly partially cooked from a voltage spike, they would of come from China so quality is questionable anyhow
nathan.z
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:09 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by nathan.z »

Take out a bulb and inspect. Could be that heat has melted the coating on the bulb?
tiff_lee
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by tiff_lee »

nathan.z wrote:Take out a bulb and inspect. Could be that heat has melted the coating on the bulb?

Ah yeah effectively 'de doming' the led changing the light tint, which again goes back to the voltage and how much current is driving the led's. Current limiting resistor is too small and so leds are being driven too hard, generating too much heat (insufficient heat sinking).
JLW
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Location: Tunbridge Wells

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

tiff_lee wrote:
nathan.z wrote:Take out a bulb and inspect. Could be that heat has melted the coating on the bulb?

Ah yeah effectively 'de doming' the led changing the light tint, which again goes back to the voltage and how much current is driving the led's. Current limiting resistor is too small and so leds are being driven too hard, generating too much heat (insufficient heat sinking).


jeez sounds technical, its a modification that multiple people have done before so i can't see why its affecting me specifically ?

i have ordered a different style of LED and I'm going to try them, i will see if that changes the fade over time as i can't see how id change the power going to them.
tiff_lee
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:18 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by tiff_lee »

I've done loads of stuff with torches and what not they love their leds on the candlepower forums.

I've used similar things loads of times, like I said it may just be a crap batch of leds.

With regards to power I was referring to a possible voltage spike, so spike in alternator output which may of partially cooked them.
JLW
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Tunbridge Wells

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Now that's a possibility as I managed to break the starter motor
Getting to the clutch arm and had to replace, but not before wondering why the car constantly wouldn't turn on, thought I had alarm issues.

Maybe whilst I was trying to get the car to turn on its surged and created the bulbs to fade.

I get the new batch in the next day or so, so will fit and see if that rectifies the issue.
JLW
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Tunbridge Wells

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Hi Guys

so I'm Still experiencing issues and now know that its not the bulbs that are faulty, i noticed last night when fitting the new replacement bulbs that whenever i turn the sidelights on from the stalk. that all interior lights, including the head unit facia dim by about 30% , even the clock looses power by the same amount.

but whats most interesting is that the head unit goes from a white light to the same purple that the speedo led's are doing , clearly something is sapping power ?

I'm running these LED's on the side lights and rear numberplate lights without any issues so it must be specific to the interior ?

any ideas.
Pauln
Posts: 850
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Location: Cardiff, South Wales

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

I think you'll find most aftermarket head units will dim when you turn on the lights as the normal illumination level of the head unit in daylight would be too bright at night and distracting. From memory I think the clock illumination is the same.

Why not take the cluster out again and try fitting standard non led bulb and see if that works OK. If you have a multi meter you could also take out one of the bulb holders and check the voltage on the circuit board where the lamp holder connects, Just be careful not to short anything out. That should at least show whether it's a wiring fault or just a cheapo led issue. Out of interest stick up a link so we can see which leds you bought.

Paul
JLW
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

oh right, I'm not sure as i never noticed before, that does make sense.
however i dont understand why the LED's have become less powerful, even with new ones fitted they are not going back to how they were at first.

here are the LED's that i bought ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161629831750? ... EBIDX%3AIT )

Below is two videos of whats happening whenever i turn the side lights on, with and without the engine on making no difference. Its strange as when i first fitted these LED's there wasn't this issue and they we really bright. ( as above )

http://vid1252.photobucket.com/albums/h ... jdwobz.mp4
and with the engine on
http://vid1252.photobucket.com/albums/h ... ohbxw8.mp4

??
Pauln
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Location: Cardiff, South Wales

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

Just checked, and can confirm clock illumination does dim when you switch on the side lights.

It may just be a coincidence, but I've not heard of anyone using canabus leds for the cluster before, and wonder if the additional resistor in these is an issue. It shouldn't in theory make any difference as these are just supposed to create the same resistance as a traditional bulb.

I've always used straight smd leds like these and never had this sort of problem:
SMD LED Link

I still think the best option is to try going back to a conventional lamp in at least one of the cluster lamps to see if that works OK, or put a meter on the lamp supply on the cluster to see if you've a volt drop problem. If the conventional lamp works OK, or you have 12v on the cluster track where the lamp holder makes contact, it's either the leds or a poor connection between the lamp holder and the cluster, or a poor connection between the lamp holder and the led.

If it's no different with a conventional lamp or your getting substancially less than 12v, you could make sure the multipin plugs are all making a good contact and there is no sign of damage to the tracks feeding the cluster leds.

After that things get a bit more complicated, as you need to check the supply to the cluster.

Have you tried turning on he side lights then switching on the ignition to see if the warning lights in the cluster are also dimmer than they should be if the side lights are on, as that might help to narrow down the issue.

Scrub that. I've just taken a look at your video again, and as far as I can see the warning lights are working OK.

Paul
JLW
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Morning Paul

Since your last reply, I changed the colour of the clock with new film and realised your correct, the light dims for the purpose of driving. I also went through the settings on my Head Unit and turned the dimmer setting off, so that clears up that issue !

Im going to order a set of the straight SMD's you have linked below, also will try to get hold of a few typical bulb 501's and see if this makes any difference.

If either of the two above options don't work, then as you say I could have damage to the tracks that take the current to each of the cluster holders. This sounds more likely then individual cluster holders having issues as currently all LED 501's are dimmer then previous as opposed to a few.

Image
Image
Pauln
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

Yep the clock looks much better in that colour, I might try that myself.

Let's hope the straight leds do the trick.

Paul
JLW
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

I have a load of film left if you want me to cut you a piece and send over free buddy ?

I used a solid piece of clear plastic from a sweet box to hold it in place.

let me know.
Pauln
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Location: Cardiff, South Wales

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

Thanks that would be great. I've sent you a PM.

Paul
JLW
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Location: Tunbridge Wells

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Right, so last night I found a few conventional push fit 501 bulbs and also a few
straight green SMD's that the previous owner had fitted.

I've taken comparison shots of the two compared to the canbus LED's that I'm using. Im not sure if its the green that makes it look brighter or not but I think its worth trying some Straight SMD's in white as you said. I'm also going to order some blue ones to try and match the clock as I think colour will shine better then White.

the connections from the cluster holders to the circuit seemed fine and didn't get brighter if I pushed in or moved around.

( The pictures actually make the light look brighter than it is )

Image
Image
Pauln
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

Those photos do seem to confirm it's to do with fitting those canabus leds, but you obviously can't be sure until you fit straight leds.

However, I wouldn't recommend blue leds as you'll find it impossible to see what the dials are reading at night because the "red" needles "vanish" under blue light.

The previous owner of my tubby fitted blue leds and they were a disaster. I'd stick with white if I were you. If you really want to go blue, the cheapest way to do this is using blue film behind the dials cut to allow white light in the centre where the needles are, if you see what I mean.

In my case I managed to get hold of a set of blue s/h speed hut dials and fitted those instead and replaced the blue back light bulbs with white leds. But that's a more expensive option.

It's not a very good photo, and I've also played around with he size of leds since then to cut down on the excessive spill from the leds, but it gives an idea of how it looks and I can now see what speed I'm doing at night.

Image

But the main thing is to avoid fitting blue leds, they really don't work.

Paul
JLW
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

ahh yeah I see to remember reading somewhere that blue LED's can cause that
issue now you mention it.

I like what you have done with the dials, but to be honest i just want it back together now and is Straight SMD's in white prove to be better then ill stick with that and adjust the head unit to match :D

ill order a set over the weekend and let you know buddy.

thanks,

jordan.
JLW
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by JLW »

Morning Mate

So I've fitted a set of straight SMD bulbs and its made no difference,
speaking to Peter Gidden he has informed me that I might have possibly caused a short circuit when I mangled the original starter motor.

He has informed me to first check with a Volt meter the current from the battery and then check the current on the terminals that run into the bulb holders on the back of the speedo unit to see if I'm getting the same reading.

Then he advised me to unplug and plug back in the 3 terminals on the back of the unit to see if that clears a possible error.

I've tried 3 different sets of LED's / SMD's now and they haven't made any difference, considering that I didn't have this issue that I can remember until i wrecked the starter motor it would make sense that I've shorted something.

let me know your thoughts.
Pauln
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:15 pm
Location: Cardiff, South Wales

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] 501 LED dash bulb LED issues.

Post by Pauln »

It's certainly an odd one.

Did the new SMDs never work correctly, or did they change colour with use like your previous leds?

I agree that you really need to check the voltage reaching the smds is the same as that at the battery.

Whats really strange is that ordinary lamps seem to work OK, and its just that led/smd types that are a problem. But given that all the external leds you fitted are fine suggests that it's either a fault in the illumination feed to the cluster, or an issue in the cluster itself.

As leds draw a lower current than conventional lamps increased resistance due to a poor contact could be an issue, either at the fuse, or the three multi pin plugs on the back of the cluster, or even the tracks at the bulb holders themselves.

But before you go searching for a poor or corroded connection I'd get the meter out and see what voltage is actual on the cluster.

I've got a spare cluster in the attic and will get that down tonight and check if there are any electronics in that circuit. I can't imagine why there should be, but given Toyota love of ecu for everything, you never know.

One other thought, you don't have a dimmer in that circuit do you?

Paul
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