How fast could...

[dgh.mr2]

a road legal (and road useable) Mk3 be made, as a track car, and how much would it cost?

[pistol pete]

as fast as you want for as much as you want really..

bit to much of a general question i feel

[dgh.mr2]

Yes, I thought that soon after I posted, thought about how to clarify things a bit, so assuming road usability how fast could it go on track (e.g. laptime at somewhere like Brands or Donington) and what ought to be done to achieve this for:

(a) £10,000

(b) £15,000

(c) £20,000

[vinp182]

I had 146 out of my turbo'd roadster back in 2011 on a closed private road

With the cost of the car included i've put around 20k into it

[vinp182]

Oh, and I got second fastest lap of Curborough sprint track on a Lotus day. Only beaten by a SC Exige on R888's

[dgh.mr2]

The second post is very interesting for me as it's laptimes I'm focussed on and know Curborough well. We had a Lotus Sunbeam that ran 38s on the single lap (way back in the days before track based rubber) and a Chevette HSR that did low 37s, again on road tyres.

My brother used his standard Mk1 MR2 to win his class and build points in the AMMC championship a few times when the Chevette was 'ill", posting low 40s. Slower in a straight line and he said it felt like it was floating around the track but still nippy enough back then.

[vinp182]

For track I'd go fully stripped out with coilovers and bracing (mr2 championship style)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jExpXBXTWvs

[dgh.mr2]

I was thinking of a stripped out car, lightened as far as possible, with a full, welded in cage (to all load points/pickup/suspension mounts et cetera?), adjustable coilovers, engine transplant and, very probably, a bodykit.

I love the way the Rogue race car looks and guess slightly wider rubber might help if power is increased much.

Not sure whether brakes are worth doing but see Stoptech list them and that one US race Mk3 uses them - had them on two (heavier, true) M3s and they were ace.

[tonigmr2]

I was going to say talk to Patrick at Rogue...they've made cars on cheap budgets and big budgets. I reckon you could do a really fun car for as little as £5K, and a monster car for £20K...and a real monster monster car for more, LOL. How long is a peice of string?

[dgh.mr2]

Less than the string that FEAM turned into! That was a noose.

It would depend on what benefits to track or road the different cost would give but possibly c. £15000 asa ball park, but £20,000 as a top limit and I'd want to budget for service/consumables and repairs in the latter. Almost certainly would go to Rogue for the work.

BTW - is/when will your twin charger be ready?

[tonigmr2]

Mapping 28th May then I hope we're up and finished.

I'd love to build a roadster project. I do rather fancy it!
Defo worth talking to Patrick, ask them about some of them they've built for the GT series....one got me rather hot under the collar it was gorgeous.

[dgh.mr2]

Glad to hear it's so close now! Been a while hasn't it and I have to admit I did wonder if you'd get fed up and never complete it. It should be the best Mark 1 ever built once done, given all that's in/on it. Probably the only one to exceed the cost of my old one too!

I had a really good look around Rogue's Brit Car racer when they competed at Silverstone in 2010 (I think) and it looked very attractive, and the later version better still. I love the way it looks and am torn between the tried and tested M3 route or, if I thought the MRS could be about as fast and as much - or more - fun to drive would actually prefer the Toyota.

Then again I'm now also intrigued by the EXP1/Xenon shown on a different thread. A fully caged re-package of a S.H. Toyota (if that's how it's created) looks like a good bet for a light, responsive trackday toy.

[BenF]

ON your original post - it depends on how track focussed and / or road useable you want it to be. I've had a ride in Toni's racecar Mk3 and that was impressive - what I've got is more standard roadcar ( sleeper style ) that you can enjoy at a trackday by bolting on some sacrifical rubber.

I have to say that mine on road tyres on the start/finish straight at the 'ring the front end does feel to get lighter as you head north of 120mph. You could probably fix that with some tyres, geo setup and maybe some downforce.

Definitely worth talking to Patrick as for 10k+ upwards you could build something quite special.

[dgh.mr2]

Cheers Ben. I'd like it to be (very) competent on track but would want it to handle roads too so I can enjoy it more.

I've suffered some very compromised and very stiff cars so don't mind it being a bit hard and can cope with lack of interior comforts but don't want to go so far that on backroads you have to drive really slowly to avoid it throwing itself off on bumps etc. which a couple of my track cars have been like; so some suppleness and control at least.

Something like a more modern/update on my old Mk1s (esp. the two on LEDA coil overs) would be fine - without the rust and reliability issues hopefully!

[Ekona]

Daft question, but do you want a track car or a project?


If you're just going to be throwing money at a track car (nowt wrong with that), then you'd be better looking at something Caterfield or Elise inspired. If it's a project you're going to build yourself and get your kicks that way, then go for it.

If it were me and my money, and ride quality on the road wasn't a concern, then I'd really have to love my MR2 as it would be painful to have ploughed £20K into a car that still gets nailed in the corners by a 1.6 Cat or the sheddiest of Elises.

[Rogue]

Sounds like you could do with a visit David! I've got a lot of potential options, including some race cars that are either going to be sold or broken for parts that might be of interest to you.

If it were me and my money, and ride quality on the road wasn't a concern, then I'd really have to love my MR2 as it would be painful to have ploughed £20K into a car that still gets nailed in the corners by a 1.6 Cat or the sheddiest of Elises.

You'd be surprised just how capable a mk3 becomes once it has some usable power. This is the car that we used in Britcar early on in its development when it was just a normally aspirated V6. This was a race that was amalgamated with a load of bike engined stuff like Radicals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpi5dw0E8KA

[Ekona]

Oh I know how great the mk3 chassis is, but for £20k you've got yourself a Honda Elise which I feel will be far more capable.

Each to their own of course, and building your own MR2 from scratch would arguably be more rewarding than buying an S1 and paying someone to convert it, that's why I wondered if the goal was a fast track car or a DIY project.

[dgh.mr2]

Thanks again gents.

I will visit sometime, Patrick. You might remember that you were kind enough to invite me down to the 2010 (iirc) Silverstone race when you were working on my Mk1 so I had a good look at the car then and saw its pace. I know you developed it further still after that so imagine it became a great car. I've watched the video of the test at Mallory when it seems to be lapping everything out there too!

I'm weighing up pros and cons and sorting - eventually - plans for when I get some money owed to me, in a couple of years and wil move then. Just trying to sort ideas out in my head so I don't forget/get sidetracked.

Re. Dan's message, I'd never fit a Caterham type car (size 13 feet don't seem to suit the usual kit car pedal boxes! Maybe the Xenon is roomier?) and wouldn't expect a Mk3 within my budget to trounce them all, but - given what my Mk 1s could do - I would be disappointed if it didn't hold its own with Elises etc.

Either of my sc (the old 'Super Nail' owned by Alex and Anna) or the less powerful but very much lighter NA (basically a road going race car in all but name) could compete very well with all but the fasest Elises/Exiges - and a good number of Westfield/Caterham Academy type cars - and that's including several track days/tests with Lotus Championship racers on track at the same time, some not road legal and on even trickier rubber.

There's a chance I might be able to get that back but I know it's been partly dismantled now, so not sure if it will end up for sale, what will be left or what state it might be in by the time I'm ready, so thought a Mk3 based car might be a more modern way to go? Wouldn't be a project btw as I can't do the work myself, bar stripping out etc.