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Wilwood brake conversion...??

 
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A.BLAKE




Joined: 30 Nov 2010
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1993 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Wilwood brake conversion...?? Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Need to replace and upgrade my brake system.. Was just going to go for standard discs with carbotech pads as i hear this is a very good set up..

However like the look of this wilwood kit.. Figure in the long run could work out cheaper as well as the pads would be cheaper and i could sell the kit if i ever wanted to brake the car... Plus i do like the look of a big brake kit behind the alloys [Laughing]

Any one using this kit?? Is it any good?? Any problems with bias or anything else???

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/296mm-Wilwood-big-brake-kit-Toyota-MR2-1990-1999-Brembo-Track-Turbo-GT-GT-S-/110749874850?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7509885734577799075#ht_1820wt_698
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bobhatton
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

If you want your brakes to work better you have to upgrade both front and rear together with a very well designed kit or you will not have the balance.

With our rear engine the rear brakes do far more work than if it was a front engined car
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A.BLAKE




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1993 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Is the WMS kit better than this?

Seems they do a FF RR kit so i could go all round for less than the price of a 6 pot front!
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bobhatton
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I have had my MR2 for 14 years on the road and been racing another for the last 2 years and have the stock brakes and carbotech type pads.

There is no way I am going to change the brakes for bigger ones, they are not needed and I just know the balance will be wrong.

The above is all you need for great brakes but as you say do not look the best but do work very well
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Keri-WMS
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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

A few points:

- We spent a lot of time making sure there is a matched WMS front setup for every rear setup type, the balance is NOT wrong with a WMS kit. (I can't speak for that Wilwood kit!)
- OEM calipers and Carbotech pads work well when the calipers are in good condition, but WMS kits are far, far lighter and offer better modulation (and the parts are new which always helps!)
- Carbotech pads cost exactly the same for WMS as OEM, best of both worlds.

Heat resistance and brake torque is only part of the story, brake feel/modulation and weight saving (=better handling) are not really something you can improve without changing calipers.

Horses for courses of course, but here are the numbers for "on paper" bias effect comparison of the calipers+discs only (full workings can be posted here if you want to see how the figures were generated).

Rev 1 OEM = 60.5% f / 39.5% r

Rev 2 OEM = 58.0% f / 42.0% r

Rev 2 WMS = 57.0% f / 43.0% r < 280.0mm WMS front / Rev 2 OEM rear (proposed WMS kit to fit under 5" OEM wheels)

Rev 2 WMS = 59.0% f / 41.0% r < 298.5mm WMS front / Rev 2 OEM rear

In reality you get a bit more from the WMS calipers as they work better (less losses in pad clip and slider friction).
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MMaddict




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Keri, You forgot to tell they are also better priced as the WW BBK (and your brackets look nicer)
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Keri-WMS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Thanks Vincent!

Also, compare the Wilwood kit hoses (anything missing in the middle!!?) and brackets (regarding build quality):



..to our ones...





[Whistle]
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raptor95GTS




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1995 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

42mm in those wilwood calipers is a fair rise from the 36mm odd in stock calipers. I have the 996 calipers and they're 36/40mm so not far off stock, bigger aint always better esp for that all important feel and as pointed out the rears in our cars do a lot of work.

Funny how when folks mention more power it's oh yeah do this do that but when you mention bigger brakes it's why bother, save your money stock is good enough..

I would have gone Keri's setup but it wasn't around when I did my BBK hence the Porsche calipers (they look fooking huge) up front and stock rears with bigger discs all round. Haven't tested side to side with a stock car and good working brakes but that all important I know I will stop feeling is there. Until I ar$e it up of course [pale]
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bobhatton
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Keri-WMS wrote:
(full workings can be posted here if you want to see how the figures were generated).



Yes please and also what you have done with road and race checks.
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Keri-WMS
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

bobhatton wrote:
Keri-WMS wrote:
(full workings can be posted here if you want to see how the figures were generated).



Yes please and also what you have done with road and race checks.


Here you go, this is a "brake setup vs brake setup" comparison, not an overall car study - so this ignores everything other than the caliper/pad/disc.

Here are four example setups that work, as well as the original Rev 1 and and Rev 2> numbers.

Standard Rev 1 Mk2:


Standard Rev 2 Mk2:


The Rev 2 was fitted to my car and used as a starting reference, including a few laps of the Nurburgring.

...so that's the standard cars, here are the upgraded options....

Rev 2 rear brakes matched with 298.5mm disc / 1.38" piston WMS kit, what most people would use I'd have thought:


This setup was tested by me on my own car, in a range of conditions from summer to winter, and also at Brands hatch.

Rev 1 rear brakes matched with 298.5mm disc / 1.25" piston WMS kit, handy to know it works:


-------------- the ones below don't have a handbrake (WMS 4 pot front and rear) so are full-race only -----------------

Maintains bais, might have a soft pedal:


Increases front bias, medium pedal:


Increases rear bias, best pedal:


The race F+R kit has been used and was a huge improvement on a car in the Nippon Challenge, and a WMS kit helped a TVR Tasmin to win the 2011 Dunlop TVR Challenge Championship outright, beating much more modern TVRs in the process.
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