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WMS Brakes-> SW20 4 pot brake kit: £495.00+vat (also 2.5% or 5% IMOC discounts!)
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: WMS Brakes-> SW20 4 pot brake kit: £495.00+vat (also 2.5% or 5% IMOC discounts!) Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

At WMS Brakes we've been doing motorsport / trackday brake kits for various cars for years but in particular the AW11 MR2 - but we've finally launched the two SW20 Mk2 MR2 kits. [Mr. Green]

There are two versions, 4P018 with 298.5x18mm discs and 4P065 with heavier 296x28mm discs - each kit uses the same caliper and bracket (one side of the bracket suits each kit) so it's possible to buy one and change to the other with minimal cost later on.

4P018:


The kits work with the standard OEM spec master cylinder as it has 92.7% of the piston area of the OEM caliper, and goes under most 16's and maybe the odd motorsport 15" but sadly not the OEM 15" wheel.

I've generated PDF files showing the profiles of both versions, the idea is you can print them, check they are 1:1 scale, stick them to card and cut them out - and offer them up to the inside of your wheels to see if they'll fit! [Mr. Green]

298.5x18 4P018:
www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P018-SW20-298_5mm-T20-rotated.pdf

296x28 4P065:
www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P065-SW20-296mm-T20-rotated.pdf

NOTE: The recomended spec for piston choice is to fit the Rev2> larger rear brakes with this kit, more setup options will be added soon....

Specs are:
- 6061 T6 Aluminium WMS T20 calipers, CNC machined from billet and hard anodised, stainless pistons 1.38"/1.38" pistons (optional 1.25"/1.25" pistons).
- 6061 T6 clear anodised brackets, with VERY strong 304 stainless steel threaded inserts (this system is strong enough that we found during testing that an M10 grade 12.9 bolt will actually stretch before the inset fails!).
- Grade 12.9 cap head bolts
- We offer a 12-month NO QUIBBLE guarantee on the piston seals (like most other race ones WMS calipers don't have external seals as they would burn off under competition conditions), if they fail we'll send you new ones even if you've been using them on a tractor. This is to counter the worries people have about piston seals on race calipers........we have only ever needed to supply one or two sets and they were not due to dust getting in - in fact we rarely or never sell any seals to even very old kits, and that includes rally cars (mud/grit everywhere). Bottom line is, keep the calipers clean like you would any other part of the car and there won't be any issues, it's just scaremongering.

4P018:


4P018:


4P018:


4P018:


4P018:


Rev 2 front brakes as a comparison:

Prices as of March 2014 -----

4P018-S 298.5x18 kit (calipers/discs/brackets/inserts/bolts) is £495.00+vat
4P065 296x28 kit (calipers/discs/brackets/inserts/bolts) is £515.00+vat
Earls braided lines to fit (Toyota ones don't) = £49.00+vat/pr
Upgrade to grooved discs (not available for 18mm thick disc) = £40+vat

Pads:
- EBC Reds/Yellows are £POA+vat/set
- Ferodo DS2500 (fast road) = £62.00+vat/set
- Ferodo DS3000 (race) = £63.00+vat/set

We are offering a discount structure, 2.5% off the for members, 5% off for Premuim Members which now applies to ALL PARTS. Also any orders settled up by bank transfer (optional of course!) has FREE SHIPPING otherwise it's £10.00+vat (to UK zone one only).

We also offer some handy EBC pads:

SW20 front Redstuff = £POA
SW20 front Yellowstuff = £POA
SW20 rear Redstuff = £POA
SW20 rear Yellowstuff = £POA

Fire away with any questions......here are photos of the lines:





------ NEW KITS IN DEVELOPMENT --------

We're looking at kits to use the 324mm Supra discs as used in some BBK big disc kits. Here are some sneak peeks:

T20-S caliper kit (4P088):


Last edited by Keri-WMS on Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:58 pm; edited 13 times in total
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bri0905




Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: Calne, Wilts
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1996 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Price please? Pad options?
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

bri0905 wrote:
Price please? Pad options?


£see above for the kit which is the discs, calipers, brackets+inserts, bolts.

EBC Reds are £see above, Yellows are £see above, we also offer Ferodo DS2500 and DS3000.

Manufacturers offering this shape pad are:

- EBC
- Mintex
- Ferodo
- Padid
- Carbotec
- Hawk
- Performance Friction
- Wilwood
- Carbone Lorraine

...and others I'm sure I've forgotten! [Laughing]


Last edited by Keri-WMS on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Keri-WMS




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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I've got a confirmed price, see above.

I've reached the point of brake fade testing the kit and it's about the same as the Rev 2 front stuff, both fitted with Reds. However it's loads more responsive / controlable and that bit more powerful......but a lot lighter, and the pads and discs cost less for the WMS kit.

Also where I had warped/juddering discs for the first 1,500 miles with the OEM Rev 2 calipers (even with perfect sliders and pads free in the clips and new discs & Red pads), the 4-pots are fine! [Whistle]

Goes to show that pad control is more important than thermal mass when keeping discs happy, the WMS disc is 18mm thick verses the Rev 2's whopping great 30mm...

The last missing link is the brake lines now - I need to replace the ones on the car with fully revised ones and get a price + photos done and we're sorted! [thumleft]
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Race Idiot
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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1994 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

interested! [Mr. Green] might have to wait a couple of months tho

how much are the carbotecs?
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Race Idiot wrote:
interested! [Mr. Green] might have to wait a couple of months tho

how much are the carbotecs?


Cool - let me know!

I don't have an account with Carbotech so I can't give you a price I'm afraid, although I have a few part numbers. The pad shape is the same as the split-pin Wilwood Dynalite uses, which is the easiest way to find the pads!

As far as I can gather, maybe £150-£200/set? I would try EBC first! [thumleft]
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Keri-WMS




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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I took some photos to show the difference in unsprung/rotational mass.

Rev 2> 276x32mm vs WMS 298.5x18mm.... [Mr. Green]





So that's a 5.64kg saving per wheel, 11.28kg lighter in total. [Whistle]
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Slarty




Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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2008 BMW M3

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Nice looking bit of kit, and at a reasonable price but do you have anything in place to take into account the fluid displacement inbalance?

It's a pretty serious issue tbh when fitting larger front calipers (as I'm sure you're aware)
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Keri-WMS




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Slarty wrote:
Nice looking bit of kit, and at a reasonable price but do you have anything in place to take into account the fluid displacement inbalance?

It's a pretty serious issue tbh when fitting larger front calipers (as I'm sure you're aware)


The WMS calipers in the kit are not actually larger (a common assumption created by the problems people encounter with DIY 4-pot kits) - they have 1.38" pistons which equates to 92.7% of the piston area of the SW20 calipers.

The step from 276mm to 298.5mm discs compensates for this drop, so you do get a bit of a bias shift to the front but it's minimal!
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Slarty




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Keri-WMS wrote:
they have 1.38" pistons


As apposed to what for the standard twin pot calipers? Asking out of general intrest and not a leading question, I don't know the answer! lol.
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Keri-WMS




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Slarty wrote:
Keri-WMS wrote:
they have 1.38" pistons


As apposed to what for the standard twin pot calipers? Asking out of general intrest and not a leading question, I don't know the answer! lol.


I got 36.40mm (1.433") for the Rev 1 Toyota calipers, which while technically a 2-pot, has to have the area doubled as it behaves as a 4-pot (just heavier, with friction from the sliders and lopsided pad wear/temperatures!). I measured a Rev 2> piston the other day and it was 36.30mm, but I assume that was a "fit" or undersize/oversize variation.
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DAN_REV1_TURBO
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1990 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

So for everything all in, discs, calipers, pads and including VAT and postage what does it work out at roughly? I`ve just shelled out on coilovers and a few other bits but I will be looking to upgrade my brakes next, at the end of this month.
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Keri-WMS




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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

D4N_V_U wrote:
So for everything all in, discs, calipers, pads and including VAT and postage what does it work out at roughly? I`ve just shelled out on coilovers and a few other bits but I will be looking to upgrade my brakes next, at the end of this month.


Most people would go for:

£see above for the kit which is the discs, calipers, brackets+inserts, bolts.
EBC Reds are £see above
Lines need to be confirmed but are probably £see above
UK Zone 1 shipping is FREE for people who use a bank transfer, or £10.00+vat for people who use PayPal.

So the total for the front (via transfer) is £see abovesee above inc vat)


Last edited by Keri-WMS on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Shame us germans can't use these [Sad] The system for 17's with slotted rotors would have been the nuts!

Nice looking (and prolly working too) system [Applause]
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Keri-WMS




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Location: WMS Brakes - Bexhill, S.E. UK
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

mr2magic wrote:
Shame us germans can't use these [Sad] The system for 17's with slotted rotors would have been the nuts!

Nice looking (and prolly working too) system [Applause]


Thanks, I like this kit as well! [Mr. Green]

Because of the TUV? I have heard of a system where a modified car in Germany can have a "one off" TUV certificate applied to it by being inspected - similar to the way UK kit-cars have a SVA test when first built to check they are safe.

I would be willing to work with you to try and get a WMS kit to pass this test....although it will be for just your car it's a very good way to see if other people can get their WMS brakes past the same test.

What do you think? Maybe ask the TUV guys how they treat kit-cars in Germany, or heavily modified cars?
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hello Keri,

exactly! The TÜV is the big problem. It is possible to get a 'one-off' certificate but...and it's a big one!.....it could turn out to be very expensive depending on the tests necessary. If and only if it's a case of swapping the brakes and doing a test drive then no problem. If on the other hand they also want to test the material strength and fading ect. then the costs begin to explode.

I'll ask my local TÜV guy what is involved and get back to you on this, ok!?

I'm guessing the system for 17's is just a different bracket and larger rotors!?

Are there plans for a six pot version?
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Keri-WMS




Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

mr2magic wrote:
Hello Keri,

exactly! The TÜV is the big problem. It is possible to get a 'one-off' certificate but...and it's a big one!.....it could turn out to be very expensive depending on the tests necessary. If and only if it's a case of swapping the brakes and doing a test drive then no problem. If on the other hand they also want to test the material strength and fading ect. then the costs begin to explode.

I'll ask my local TÜV guy what is involved and get back to you on this, ok!?


That would be great, drop me a PM when you find out what he says! I'm happy to work with you to get it to pass if you can get the testing info from them?

mr2magic wrote:
I'm guessing the system for 17's is just a different bracket and larger rotors!?


The T20 caliper's maximum sensible disc size is 300-310mm, a 17" kit would be about 325mm. We have a new (bigger) 4-pot coming soon for kits that size, but it'll be more expensive.

mr2magic wrote:
Are there plans for a six pot version?


Maybe in the future, but the price goes up rapidly!
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mr2magic




Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Keri-WMS wrote:
mr2magic wrote:
Hello Keri,

exactly! The TÜV is the big problem. It is possible to get a 'one-off' certificate but...and it's a big one!.....it could turn out to be very expensive depending on the tests necessary. If and only if it's a case of swapping the brakes and doing a test drive then no problem. If on the other hand they also want to test the material strength and fading ect. then the costs begin to explode.

I'll ask my local TÜV guy what is involved and get back to you on this, ok!?


That would be great, drop me a PM when you find out what he says! I'm happy to work with you to get it to pass if you can get the testing info from them?

mr2magic wrote:
I'm guessing the system for 17's is just a different bracket and larger rotors!?


The T20 caliper's maximum sensible disc size is 300-310mm, a 17" kit would be about 325mm. We have a new (bigger) 4-pot coming soon for kits that size, but it'll be more expensive.

mr2magic wrote:
Are there plans for a six pot version?


Maybe in the future, but the price goes up rapidly!


Any bigger and the bracket becomes to large and cannot hold the torque or why?

What about rears and parking brake? Are these available, especially parking brake, because there is no chance of a certificate without one.
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Keri-WMS




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

mr2magic wrote:
Any bigger and the bracket becomes to large and cannot hold the torque or why?

What about rears and parking brake? Are these available, especially parking brake, because there is no chance of a certificate without one.


There's no rear handbrake WMS kit yet, sorry. The front kit is ok with the Rev 2 rear OEM stuff (as long as the pads are the same material).

We will be looking to get a rear kit sorted out soon though!

The brackets are fine, the reason is that as the disc gets bigger, if you keep the pad lined-up with the edge of the disc, the disc gets closer to the inside of the caliper (in the "bridge", at the ends of the caliper if that makes sense). So for a bigger disc, you need a bigger caliper!
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mr2magic




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1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

[Think] Hmmm, no rears with parking brake.....would look kind of funny. Let's see what the TÜV says anyway.

[Idea] I see! Of course the arc of the disk changes with diameter causing the disk to touch the bridge at some point! I forgot about that [Very Happy]
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