mk2 turbo: Broken engine

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Ian Geary
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:43 pm
Location: Surrey

mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

I'm glad IMOCs back- my turbo has been sitting broken in my drive for the last 2 weeks whilst I've been wondering what to do about it.

There was masses of accumulated technical knowledge in the IMOC Q & A posts, but the site went down the day after my car did!

Anyway, I'm getting it towed to my Dad's garage next week, so no doubt I'll be bombarding the mechanical section with questions in the near future whilst we try and rebuild it.

So I'm pretty chuffed the site is back, and looking better for it too.
Frustrated Pilot
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garage? where

Post by Frustrated Pilot »

Alright!

where is ya dad's garage?? do you think he can do a turbo conversion... and if i gather all the parts... how much?

just out of interest...? :D
Ian Geary
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:43 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

ahh, misunderstanding here.

I meant his garage, as in the thing next to his house. He doesn't run a garage workshop unfortunately - he's an Accountant!

But he does know his way round engines, and his garage has the advantage of heat, light and a roof, unlike my driveway in winter.

As for a turbo convestion, I understand comapnies like www.Roguesystems.co.uk have had quite a bit of experience in this.

As for a price, I'm sure there's more well informed people on here, but I reckon 5 days labour at least to remove the old engine and set up the turbo one with wiring etc. Parts will be the killer though.


hth

Ian
chrisbilling

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by chrisbilling »

Whats wrong with your car ???
Ian Geary
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:43 pm
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Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

wow genuine interest! I've been boring people at work stupid about my car.

I was getting loads of oil smoke on boost, which was causing the engine to stutter as oil got into the piston chanber.

I thought it was turbo bearing seal related, but now I've done a compresison check (all 110psi, jumping to 150 / 170ish with a squirt of oil) I reckon its piston rings. Plus there's no play on the turbo shaft.

Stupidly I didn't leave the car alone, and was driving one night when a huge oil smoke plume cut the engine out.

Got it towed home, and it's been sitting there ever since. Luckily oil loss was only 1 litre (which makes a suprising amount of smoke) and so didn't seize.

Don't know the damage to the bores yet, but I'll find this out as my Dad and I take the engine apart.

New rings from fensport are only £110, but it's what else I do whilst the engine is out that will cost me...

thanks again for the interest!

Ian
JJ
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Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by JJ »

"New rings from fensport are only £110, but it's what else I do whilst the engine is out that will cost me... "

Engine gasket set, you'll need some honing ( deglazing of the bores ) so new rings will seat, new oil pump for safe measures, timing belt .. loads of other small bits like hose clips.

In summary, if the engines gone the way it has, it can be a combination of head gasket failure, piston failure, worn bores, worn turbo .... the turbo can have little play in it yet still emmit loads of oil into the intake / exhaust housing.

To do the above will cost quite a bit.... or pick up a good 2nd hand unit complete and stick that in one go.

You can recoup some money on yours for those that want to rebuild an engine to be able to withstand some serious power ! .. unless you want to go down that route ???

:wink:
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Lee @ 3S Service Centre
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Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Lee @ 3S Service Centre »

i cant imagine all the rings going together.
Ian Geary
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Location: Surrey

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

thanks for the comments - it seems I should be expecting the worse then. It makes sense to do as much as I can whilst I've got the car off the road.

The car had 71,000 on the clock when imported, so it's only done about 50,000 miles now. I'd be unlucky if a lot of the engine components have failed in this time, but I guess poor maintenance & servicing will affect an engine across the board, and not just one specific element (eg the rings).

It did run well though (up to the point it broke down that is), no knocking, strong performance, cooling system fine - the smoking on boost was the only real let down.

Fensport are asking £1500 for a rev3 short engine, so it's possible that I could probably rebuild my existing rev3 block and get my turbo checked too for the same money with standard parts.

I wasn't planning on going down the big power rebuild route (tempting though...), and I'm a bit wary of buying a second hand engine, as knowing my luck I'll just end up with 2 worn out engines instead of one!

but as JJ pointed out, if the replacement engine was cosher then it would save a lot of assembly hassle, and give me a spare block to boot.

Something to ponder about over the mince pies...
JJ
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Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by JJ »

Has it always smoked on boost ??? Tha usually points at a blocked PCV line ( your catch can line - box looking thing to the left of the thorttle body ! )

Or the turbos never been quite cricket !! ahve you pulled the intercooler hose off before the intercooler and look for traces of oil in the pipes ???

Could be a couple month out of sync... as I have a perfect engine in my engine bay at the moment which is only a temporary install... only done 34K miles genuine which would have been right up your street... but I'm holding onto it till the beasty engine is up and running and problem free !

If you want it fixed and you can get it up the north east, i can do it for you ! :)

Competitive rates ! :wink:
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^Trickster^
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Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by ^Trickster^ »

dont go to fensport for the rings, 110 is a rip off. Go to a local machine shop id say 80 pounds for a set of rings

110psi across the board and all jump to 170 with oil, not a good sign but strange for them all to be worn so much in low miles, are you doing the compression test with the throttle fully opened?

An engine gasket set is about 40 quid, and a top set is about 70 from partco

Graeme
Ian Geary
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Location: Surrey

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

to JJ: the catch can pipe was vented to atmosphere when I got the car, and did spray quite a lot of oil under the car. When I connected this back into the air intake, it seemed to increase the amount of oil being sprayed by my HKS bov, which is why I'm thinking the oil is coming from the engine block, and not the turbo.

I understand the black catch can should seperate oil vapour (which goes into air intake) and oil resedue (which goes back into the block)

I'll check this out when I've moved the car.

There was oil residue in all the intake pipes, from the (now black) air filter right to the throttle body, but I wasn't sure if this was oil from the turbo or from the pcv pipe.

to Trickster: err I can't remember, but I don't think I had the throttle open when doing the compression check. Also, this site was down, so I didn't disconnet the solenoid resistor or the cold start injector either as I couldn't locate them. I did post on the mr2dc, but I still don't think it's been answered lol!

Also my engine was stone cold, so this could have led to lower than normal compressions across the board. I'll recheck these when I get the car back to my Dad's. Is it likely a closed throttle and cold engine would reduce the compression down to 110 with intact rings? Maybe adding the oil just got the car to the state it would be when warm with full oil pressure..?

Ian
JJ
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Stockton-On-Tees

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by JJ »

Do a compression check again, literially 4 or 5 turns of the engine with the throttle wide open.

From what you've described about the intake pipes being covered in oil and the dump valve also spraying oil, seems the compressor side of the turbo is passing oil, hence your smoking when pulling hard !

The excess oil its pulled through will have fouled the spark plugs, hence it cutting out... If you just change the plugs out with cheapies... or try and clean up your existing ones, I'm sure the car will start and run.. oil won't be pulled through at the rate of the turbocharger pushing it, through the worn compressor seals.

Your cars a rev 3 is it ??? you can actually disconnect the intercooler pipe to the throttle body and start the car and run it straight from the throttle body - bareing in mind, it is unfiltered air, but it shouldn't be a problem if you keep all bits clearly away.

You may have a build up of oil in the intercooler which is acting pretty much like a P-trap on a sink... until you boost it, it'll hold oil and having pressure on the incoming side of the intercooler, will evidently push the oil forward into the throttle / intake - excess oil burning off.

Typical traits of turbocharger failure...!

Hope this news enlightens the fact that only the turbocharger maybe possibly dead opposed to the engine !

What sort of boost have you been running, stock ??

:)
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Ian Geary
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:43 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: mk2 turbo: Broken engine

Post by Ian Geary »

cheers jj, that cheers me up no end. turbo failure is definitely the lesser of 2 evils imo.

as far as I know it's been on stock boost - I can't see any repaired pipes where boost controllers might have been plumped in, but without service history I'm guessing. I think there's a lesson there somewhere...

It is a rev3, so I'll try it running with ic pipes disconnected after cleaning the plugs. So I guess if I spool up the turbo then I'll turn the car into a giant oil aerosol!?!

thanks for your ongoing help - I'll keep progess posted over Christmas.

Ian
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