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[Mk2] [Turbo] Diff backlash, driveshaft CV wear or normal play?

 
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2tmike




Joined: 06 Nov 2006
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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: [Mk2] [Turbo] Diff backlash, driveshaft CV wear or normal play? Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I'm trying to decide if the gearbox needs to come out of my rev5 turbo to fix some rattling noise on the overrun. Looking closely at the wheel bearings, driveshafts and box it's not clear where the problem lies. I'm reasonably sure the wheel bearings are OK and probably the drivers side shaft although a small amount of play can be felt in it. The outboard CV on the passenger side shaft also seems tight but if I gently rotate the driver side wheel with the car off the ground it takes almost 70mm of wheel rim movement before the passenger wheel or its driveshaft moves. Does anyone know if that normal for an lsd box or if not, is it physically possible to get that much play in the inner CV joint on a driveshaft without it sounding like a bucket of nails all the time ?
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yokomomr4bx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hey bud,

really interesting you've asked this question as it's the noise i've come accustomed to for years! If it's the same noise, it is most apparent at motorway speeds and, as you say, you lift off and go into overun. Usually after about 20 seconds or so the noise fades away. I have also checked the hub and half-shaft bearings, not the problem. My CV joints are probably like yours (could really do with some new ones but it's just never going to happen due to availability and money) but also i'm not convinced that this noise can be made by the CV joints as they tend to clatter under load when worn out. My current theory is that its the thrust bearings inside the gearbox, my reasoning being that I can make the noise go away with light application of throttle. I'm imagining in my head that the helical gears, which will exert horizontal force as they mesh, is pushing the two shafts in opposite directions and hence is wearing the thrust bearing(s) (if there is such a bearing in the gearbox)! So when on throttle and the shafts are under load they are, reasonably, silent. But when off throttle and there is no load, the two gearshafts are free to move around and partially engage with the thrust bearings, meshing between the gears as they move slightly, and hence make this noise? TBH this is all speculation!! It's pretty high on my list to get another E153 box to swap in to mine while I strip down and rebuild/find all these noises, just for curiosities sake, as I have no doubt the box will last forever regardless.

Apologies for the long post, it's just quite exciting that someone else is questioning the noise!
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2tmike




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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: gearbox noise? Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Hi, you're right about the driveshafts...they were a huge price from Toyota but anyway are now no longer available ....a rebuild is possible from a place in Birmingham though for about 130 or so.
I suspect we do have the same noise, your description fits mine pretty well so maybe the CV inner joint is OK and the noise is really coming from the box...
I was really surprised by the amount of 'free play' between the back wheels though, I've never noticed this much on other cars?
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yokomomr4bx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

I wouldn't be able to give a measurement in mm off the top of my head, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if mine was at least 70mm. Will have to jack it up quickly and have a little look, will report back later this evening [Think]
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Gazza_DJ
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1997 Toyota MR2 Mk2 NA Rev4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Who does driveshaft rebuilds for 130? Is that including all parts etc?
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2tmike




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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: driveshafts Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

try driveshaftuk.com in Brum, I've never used them but they gave me a price the other day
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2tmike




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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: gearbox etc Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

yokomomr4bx....thanks !!!
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yokomomr4bx
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: gearbox etc Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

2tmike wrote:
yokomomr4bx....thanks !!!


Sorry pal, got crazy busy this week, will get on to this!
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Gazza_DJ
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1997 Toyota MR2 Mk2 NA Rev4

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: driveshafts Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

2tmike wrote:
try driveshaftuk.com in Brum, I've never used them but they gave me a price the other day


I'll find some reviews and pop them a mail, thanks. Need to do mine but for the right price I'd rather pay someone.
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2tmike




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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: driveshafts Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

You can still get the inner CVs from places like TCB but the outer joints seem to be unobtainable now so my guess is that this company works with whats on your shaft in a rebuild
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Gazza_DJ
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1997 Toyota MR2 Mk2 NA Rev4

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

You can definitely still get the joints, Hurley supplied me with a quote for the parts.

Mine just need boots and a hub end stub replaced (I have spares in servicable condition) but just need to check the cages etc. It's just a long fiddly job looking at the guides I don't really want to do but need to! [Laughing]
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yokomomr4bx
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Many apologies for the delay in getting round to this, this morning has been the first few minutes I've had to just jack the back up! So mine has 40-45mm of 'play' before engagement. I think about 20mm of that is in the outer CV joint for sure. As mad as I may sound for saying this, I actually don't mind taking apart the CV joints on these! Not sure whether it would be the inner or outer race that is most worn, or the balls themselves. I would really be surprised if it was the CV joints making this noise, I would only expect them to start grumbling audibly when on power, not as we experience on overrun. Also the joints don't really take much load through them relatively, compare to a front wheel drive car, ours have an easy life transferring torque in a pretty straight line albeit a few degrees of suspension travel.I'm convinced it's a noise inside the box, but I'm also convinced it's a noise that can stay there for a little while longer [Wink]

Question for anyone though: when you're cruising in 5th and you're slightly on and off power, if you rest your hand lightly on the gear knob can you feel quite a bit of roughness, unless you hold the gearstick pretty much perfectly in the centre of the gate, I'm talking barely finger pressure here to move the stick forward and backwards whilst you're in 5th gear? Would be interested to know.
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2tmike




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1998 Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo Rev5

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Backlash Reply with quote Reply with quote including images

Cheers for the update..it sounds like my 70-80mm of freeplay from inside the box is much worse than yours so it'll have to come out over the winter now
No vibration on the gearstick in 5th or other gears
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